Donmai

Danbooru changelog discussion thread

Posted under Bugs & Features

The new upload page is designed so you can see the full image and the tags at the same time. The most basic requirement of uploading is that you should be able to see the image while you tag it. The old page failed at that.

The commentary is hidden behind a tab because most of the time you don't need to see it while tagging, and because showing it takes up at least half the screen. Screen space that could be used for tagging instead.

Similar images are behind a tab so you can see the full image and the similar images at the same time, and again so they don't take screen space away from the main image and tags.

You can click the "..." in the top right and choose "Dock to bottom" to put the tags beneath the image like before. PROTIP: you can use shift+B and shift+R to switch between layouts. Stuff will still be hidden behind tabs. It's possible to use custom CSS to unhide the tabs, but if you do that you'll discover why they're hidden: because otherwise they would take up the whole screen.

The recent tags are still there. If they're hidden it's because you have custom CSS or a userscript breaking them.

The related tags function the same way as before. Before you clicked on a tag to select it, then clicked a button to show the tags. Now you click on a tag to select it, then click the "Related" box to show the tags. It's the same action. You don't have to collapse/uncollapse the whole box, you can just click the tag name next to "Related:" to update the tags. The difference is that now it shows you which tag you have selected, and all the tags related to it are in the same box instead of in multiple columns taking up most of the screen. This is so it's usable inside small spaces like the right-hand edit panel, the shift+E edit box, or on small screens like phones or tablets.

I suspect a large amount of mistagging was caused by people not being able to see the image and the tags at the same time. They just blindly went through the related tags, clicking on things assuming they were present, not actually looking at the image because it was too hard to scroll back and forth between the image and the tags. This is why it's critical that you're able to see the image while you tag.

evazion said:
The related tags function the same way as before. Before you clicked on a tag to select it, then clicked a button to show the tags. Now you click on a tag to select it, then click the "Related" box to show the tags. It's the same action.

now there's more related tag tab-switching as i have to go through the related tags, general tags, and wiki tags

and all the tags related to it are in the same box instead of in multiple columns taking up most of the screen.

the columns taking up screen space is vastly preferable to the vertically stacked boxes of tags

This is so it's usable inside small spaces like the right-hand edit panel, the shift+E edit box

this was basically a non-issue for me on all but the widest of images
most images are more vertical than horizontal, so it was extremely uncommon for the width of the shift+E box to actually be an issue, where then the transparency would kick in

im more or less ok with the other changes to the commentary/source tabs

evazion said:

The commentary is hidden behind a tab because most of the time you don't need to see it while tagging, and because showing it takes up at least half the screen. Screen space that could be used for tagging instead.

Hence my suggestion that there should be an indicator that the source has commentary and that it has autofilled the commentary fields, similar to there being indicators that the image is a duplicate. That way, the user will know that there is commentary and check and tag accordingly.

evazion said:

The related tags function the same way as before. Before you clicked on a tag to select it, then clicked a button to show the tags. Now you click on a tag to select it, then click the "Related" box to show the tags. It's the same action. You don't have to collapse/uncollapse the whole box, you can just click the tag name next to "Related:" to update the tags.

This function isn't very intuitive. Not to say that the old method is intuitive (it really isn't when you think about it), but maybe a tip in the bar like "Click to find related tags for the following tag" would help.

If the idea of the new page is to make easier tagging by having both the picture and the tag list in sight, I think it makes a poor job at it. The format gives a lot of screen space to the picture while compressing the tag list, similar matches, and commentary in a single place. Having to expand a list instead of simply pressing a button that says "Related" is pretty counterintuitive and it doesn't seem like it refreshes as fast as the button did. Having to swap tabs so you can see if the picture is already uploaded or to add it to a parent post is also pretty cumbersome, having everything available on a single screen where you could simply scroll up and down to see everything was much easier and at least I never had any issues keeping track of elements to tag in my uploads.

The old one is way way way better because the functions you need are all in there. I just need to click ONCE the general/related and all the tags I need would show and I'll just manually add some tags to finish it. Now it doesn't even show all the tags that I used to see and I need to keep on switching those tabs to show the tags I need. Furthermore, the way it shows duplicate uploads. It used to be under the upload and you'll instantly know if it was perfect pixel dupe or not. Now you would need to check it on other tab, that's just making it more work for the uploaders/taggers. I used to tag an upload under a minute but now it takes MORE. This update just made the uploading ui look better but at the cost of uploading/tagging efficiency. (Phone tagging is much worse).

evazion said:

The recent tags are still there. If they're hidden it's because you have custom CSS or a userscript breaking them.

The related tags function the same way as before. Before you clicked on a tag to select it, then clicked a button to show the tags. Now you click on a tag to select it, then click the "Related" box to show the tags. It's the same action. You don't have to collapse/uncollapse the whole box, you can just click the tag name next to "Related:" to update the tags.

Half the time it doesn't work and many times (yes, even before the bangs stuff started running) simply wouldn't load.

I think the ultimate issue is that the space-saving options are just clunkier enough that they become annoying. On mobile, it's both clunkier and actually takes more space. On tablet, it functions largely the same as on desktop. (just like the new queue!)

It's certainly a cleaner layout, but it's also less functional. This is the same criticism I have of the new queue page (and the list layout is actually less clean there, too).

I think you're seriously overestimating the space an image needs vs. the space those columns of tags needs. And although it's an admirable attempt at curtailing the related tags abuse, I think making them less immediately accessible will just annoy those that abuse and those that weren't going to tag well anyway are just gonna mintag.

Was there a discussion about this that I missed or is this another moment like the queue where non-discord users are third-class citizens (and discord users who weren't on at 2am to see the one post about it second-class)?

evazion said:

I suspect a large amount of mistagging was caused by people not being able to see the image and the tags at the same time. They just blindly went through the related tags, clicking on things assuming they were present, not actually looking at the image because it was too hard to scroll back and forth between the image and the tags. This is why it's critical that you're able to see the image while you tag.

This feels... nonsensical. Perhaps it might help with minor mistags caused by scrolling back and forth, but someone who wants to mintag via related tags is just going find this to be a speed bump, not a solution. You're mixing up an underlying behavioral issue with one based on innocent mistakes.

Updated

Dark_Tzitzimine said:

and it doesn't seem like it refreshes as fast as the button did.

This is my only complaint. Testing the upload page after reading the changelog, my experience on my 6.3 screen phone is similar to the way it was, it does help a bit using the phone horizontally with the dock to right or left options if I really want to see the image while tagging, and I didn't have problems with the buttons like others. Now for the PC, I liked it because I didn't use the conventional way of tagging, I always use shift+E so the image remains on my screen.

Adjusting to feedback but also giving us an advanced option to change to the old layout would be nice.

The new upload page is designed so you can see the full image and the tags at the same time. The most basic requirement of uploading is that you should be able to see the image while you tag it. The old page failed at that.

it's still the same as before, when I open related tags I still have to scroll up in order to see the image, plus this should never be a problem for anyone who understands the basics of uploading, anyone who's lazy enough to where they can't upload accordingly simply because they can't be asked to use the wheel on their mouse shouldn't be uploading to begin with.

The commentary is hidden behind a tab because most of the time you don't need to see it while tagging, and because showing it takes up at least half the screen. Screen space that could be used for tagging instead.

a pointless change seeing as the screen is still taken up by the tag box and related tags when open, plus in the old layout you could simply collapse the commentary box when finished with, not to mention the box would automatically collapse if the commentary was added automatically.

Similar images are behind a tab so you can see the full image and the similar images at the same time, and again so they don't take screen space away from the main image and tags.

another pointless change seeing as similar images are there simply to show you that the image you're looking to upload has already been posted, therefore the argument that it takes up more space is completely pointless, and on the occasion that the similar image is different, you still need to open the image in a new tab to view both images at 100% in two tabs in order to see any missing details, and if a user needs to see both images side by side in order to tell whether or not their the same or not and/or whether there are any changes between the two then perhaps that's a personal issue on their part.

You can click the "..." in the top right and choose "Dock to bottom" to put the tags beneath the image like before.

which has just made the reason for the change redundant, another thing is when the boxes are to the side instead of below, the image is forced into a smaller resolution and I can't expand it, thus making the choice of having the boxes below the most beneficial docking, of which is pretty much the same as before but now with tabs instead of collapsable boxes, now I have to alternate through tabs constantly instead of just expanding or collapsing boxes, collapsible boxes are more helpful and less time-consuming.

The recent tags are still there. If they're hidden it's because you have custom CSS or a userscript breaking them.

I don't use CSS and I don't see any recent tags section, I just uploaded before I wrote this part of the reply to check, and there was nothing, I go to advanced settings to see if I did use any CSS code while perhaps I was drunk, and nothing was there, I go back and refreshed and checked again, alas, no recent tags, related tags are there, but not recent tags.

The related tags function the same way as before. Before you clicked on a tag to select it, then clicked a button to show the tags. Now you click on a tag to select it, then click the "Related" box to show the tags. It's the same action.

if it's the same as before then that just makes the change pointless & redundant.

You don't have to collapse/uncollapse the whole box, you can just click the tag name next to "Related:" to update the tags. The difference is that now it shows you which tag you have selected, and all the tags related to it are in the same box instead of in multiple columns taking up most of the screen. This is so it's usable inside small spaces like the right-hand edit panel, the shift+E edit box, or on small screens like phones or tablets.

I've never had to collapse any box when dealing with related tags so I don't know what your point is here because finding related tags was easy, it was just as easy before as it is now, people easily figured out how the related tags work and never needed to see the selected tag in order to know which tag they're looking to find related tags to.

as for the screen space argument, it still takes up space to find related tags regardless, the redundancy speaks for itself.

as for phones and tablets, I can only assume that the argument of screen space mostly applies to them seeing as they have smaller screens to work with, and I can only imagine that the problems I've listed are 10x worse for them as I assume they can't open tabs and have to scroll all over the place just to see glimpses of the pic their uploading even with their devices tilted.

if it were up to me I'd only allow PC users to upload, it's much easier and you're mostly sitting down in the comfort & peace of your own home while uploading, instead of uploading while on loud public transport where you can't think, I'd save you all from that headache.

I suspect a large amount of mistagging was caused by people not being able to see the image and the tags at the same time. They just blindly went through the related tags, clicking on things assuming they were present, not actually looking at the image because it was too hard to scroll back and forth between the image and the tags. This is why it's critical that you're able to see the image while you tag.

"I suspect" meaning you don't know and just blindly assuming, perhaps some people are just inherently lazy and choose not to follow the very basic and easy-to-follow rules of uploading, and the proof IS in the pudding, for example, I ask any mod or admin these two questions, how many times have you told a user to tag their posts because of the lack thereof? and then, how many warnings have you given out to those same users who've chosen to completely ignore your request and continued to upload as they did until you banned them?...just saying, perhaps there are just some people who just don't want to follow the rules, you know, internet trolls.

Updated

evazion said:

You can click the "..." in the top right and choose "Dock to bottom" to put the tags beneath the image like before. PROTIP: you can use shift+B and shift+R to switch between layouts.

Doesn’t work when editing tags on an existing post. There’s only a long list that needs lots of scrolling, with lots of blank space on the right. Previously, everything was side-by-side and there was no wasted space.

This is so it's usable inside small spaces like the right-hand edit panel, the shift+E edit box, or on small screens like phones or tablets.

Speaking of the shift+E edit box, I had hoped that it would be a viable alternative to have all the tags show up vertically next to the image, but the shift+E edit box doesn’t remember position, size or pinning status, which is really annoying when you want to use it on a bunch of posts. Not to mention that resizing it creates more and more blank space on the right, which can take up more than half of the width of the box (tested with all custom CSS and JS disabled).

Updated

I think the new upload layout is a solution to a problem that never existed or misses the point of the problem, it might help reduce some honest mistags, but dumb tag clickers are just gonna keep clicking tags blindly, and on the other hand it only makes the tagging cumbersome for experienced taggers with all the tab switching that needs to be done, not to mention it breaks a bunch of userscripts.

This might have been mentioned already (I'm not sure), but I have noticed that typing out a tag no longer brings up the little popup of available tags for auto-complete.

*edit*

Nevermind it does, but I don't know why it didn't for the Bocchi the Rock image I just uploaded.

While I can adapt to this new format with a couple minor tweaks, I agree with the others that this is trying to fix a problem that either never really existed or can never be fixed due to human nature. And I do much rather prefer the old format as there's less clicking on desktop.

Jigsy said:

This might have been mentioned already (I'm not sure), but I have noticed that typing out a tag no longer brings up the little popup of available tags for auto-complete.

*edit*

Nevermind it does, but I don't know why it didn't for the Bocchi the Rock image I just uploaded.

If you open the tag box too quickly after a page load it can fail to load the autocomplete.

so more unnecessary changes are still being pursued?

unless someone who supports the change can explain how the new layout is more beneficial than the old layout I just don't see the point in this change at all

I can liken it to how Youtube changed a whole bunch of shit in 2013 when Susan took over, they got rid of video replies.

they changed the comment section.

you could no longer customize you're channel background.

and they got rid of pages for long playlists, where's before, you knew that a song you liked & saved years ago was on page 12, now you have to scroll down for a full minute and even after that you'll have to spend more time finding the song within what is probably 16 pages worth of playlist because you happen to scroll past it without knowing.

it's just changing something just for the sake of changing it, there's no real outstanding reason for it, it just, all of a sudden, even though it's flawless and works perfectly, it needs to change.

indeed the very definition of a pointless endeavor.

Finally had the chance to test out the upload page on desktop and yeah this is worse. The dropdown for related tags goes far enough past the bottom of the page that you need to scroll down to be able to see all of them, but once you scroll down the tag entry box and tabs get hidden from view. The way the image scrolls while zoomed is also weird, with the tag tabs becoming sticky and then unsticky. Which also means that if you're doing something like uploading a tall image and want to see the translated tags, you need to scroll all the way to the bottom of the image before you can move the page.

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