Bridget - Guilty Gear Strive

Smolbaka said:

Like I said in the first few sentences the Japanese side were utterly confused by this decision.

Some were okay with it but there was one specific tweet that gained thousands of likes talking about how they can't call Bridget an "otokonoko" anymore.

The Japanese weren't asking for this. Who was?

sometimes... the creator of a character wants to take said character in a new direction.
frankly speaking before strive became ambiguous with Bridget's gender (at first), i didn't see anybody having a problem with Bridget's gender identity, only when the female pronouns and the "i'm a girl!" voiceline were seen did it really start up.

""Bridget is a boy because penis" -> False biologically""

I'm pretty sure to normal people you look ridiculous calling a biological male not a boy. Even worse, a girly looking male, a girl.

Is this how you avoid the gay accusations?

"-"Bridget has been destroyed !!!" -> Only a point of view. I personnally love Bridget Arc.""

His arc is a circle.

Born forced to be a girl since birth, corrected everyone who thought he was a girl only to give into how people see him. How sad and depressing of an arc.

yototata1 said:
I'm sorry, maybe I am missing something but... why is there a discussion about how important someone is coming from another website ?
I mean, the "Someone who isn't involved in a community will not be affected by their votings, thus likely cannot make an informed decision" seems weird to me. We are not talking about a super specific subject like how to code a spaceship, it's literally : "Do we continue to misgender Bridget, yes or no ?" And to me it seems like anybody can have a voice here as it affects people in general.

If you were able to vote on another country's election, seemingly going against what the people from that place want, how would that be helpful to them? If you invite non-members to become a member of this website, simply for voting on a BUR, how will that be beneficial to the people who are active members of danbooru? You mentioned it yourself that your motivation stems from exclusivity/inclusivity, which is not the goal of tags. You are arguing politics with people who are concerned about the technicalities of tags. We are aware of transsexuality just as we are aware of colorblindedness. In either cases the awareness and inclusivity of e.g. sexualities would not affect the reasoning as to why to tag something as A or B. It is not that political motives are by definition incompatible with visual recognition, but this is not a politics website and when people search for a tag, they expect to see a visual representation of that tag rather than a political debate in the form of artworks.

Smolbaka said:

Like I said in the first few sentences the Japanese side were utterly confused by this decision.

Some were okay with it but there was one specific tweet that gained thousands of likes talking about how they can't call Bridget an "otokonoko" anymore.

The Japanese weren't asking for this. Who was?

Doesn't really matter who was asking for it. The creator did it of his own free will and considering that recent interview he didn't do it because he was trying to pander to the west. He literally talked about this being a change in the characters story in 2021 in a interview. That "bridget is a on journey to find out who she really is" is what he said last year when asked about her. In that recent interview they also talk about how Daisuke designs all of the characters years in advance even if he doesn't know that they'll appear in the game, so it sounds like to me he's had this planned for a long time.

Also on the "Otokonoko" trope, many people in japan consider the definition to be very broad. Where any character who has was born male and has a male body (No breasts and a penis) but is extremely feminine, regardless of gender identity to fall under the category of Otokonoko. They separate 2D and 3D representations for it. For instance, Jun Watarase who wants to be a girl and was elated in the story when she turned into one through magic, Shuichi from wandering son is still considered by many to be an otokonoko despite being a trans girl, Hibari Kun, Lily Hoshikawa, Alluka, Kiyoharu from magical girl site, even Mogumo from FukaBoku which is a non-binary/x-gender character explicitly is seen as a otokonoko by many still, Mei from the same series is a trans girl. All of these characters have a different gender identity then what they were born as, but many view them still as otokonoko, It just depends on the definition you use and many consider otokonoko and transgender to be compatiable labels. Here's a long twitter thread about it.
https://twitter.com/kdttrk/status/1571144949223264264

Smolbaka said:

His arc is a circle.

Born forced to be a girl since birth, corrected everyone who thought he was a girl only to give into how people see him. How sad and depressing of an arc.

you don't understand her arc at all, huh? Bridget wasn't forced to be a girl, she just had to present as one to the village she lived in. In fact, if it wasn't for her parents feeling immense guilt over having to do this, Bridget would have gone on doing it forever because she had no issue with it. So Bridget goes out, going to prove that the village superstition is dumb, and returns doing so! Bridget can now identify as a boy in the village, except... it's not quite right. Bridget feels like there's something wrong, she tries to live as a man but she's uncertain about it. it's not until Goldlewis and Ky help her out and give her the confidence she needed to come out as trans.

And there's also the whole "why is Bridget still wearing girl clothes as a guy" which would definitely be much weirder if she did identify as a guy. because if the superstition is gone, Bridget wouldn't feel the need to dress up as a girl and keep confusing people, right?

Smolbaka said:

""Bridget is a boy because penis" -> False biologically""

I'm pretty sure to normal people you look ridiculous calling a biological male not a boy. Even worse, a girly looking male, a girl.

Is this how you avoid the gay accusations?

"-"Bridget has been destroyed !!!" -> Only a point of view. I personnally love Bridget Arc.""

His arc is a circle.

Born forced to be a girl since birth, corrected everyone who thought he was a girl only to give into how people see him. How sad and depressing of an arc.

OH WOW, I didn't expect things to escalate this quickly.
-So yeah, normal people aren't you (fortunately), and I highly encourage you to read about biology and some research if you want to.
-"Normal people", just read what I said about Nazi's, you should be able to understand that "normal people" aren't necessarily doing the right thing
-Straight homophobia ? xD I mean, "Is this how you avoid the gay accusations?" couldn't really be more clear. I'm pretty sure you'll be just fine on this website anyway but, for those who have an honest interest, this is homophobic because here we can see that being gay is something worth of accusation, meaning bad. Worse, we have to avoid being gay by pretending being transgender which is yet again bad in the description of this person.

-Concerning the arc, I advise you to play the games because I think you missed some points xd

morriganaensland said:

sometimes... the creator of a character wants to take said character in a new direction.
frankly speaking before strive became ambiguous with Bridget's gender (at first), i didn't see anybody having a problem with Bridget's gender identity, only when the female pronouns and the "i'm a girl!" voiceline were seen did it really start up.

Not so sure about this "new" direction.

He was better trying to prove his worth as a man but not the toxic masculinity way.

A man who's cute but can be manly in his own way? Now that's empowering.

A man who succumbs to thinking he's a girl because of how others treat him? Sounds like a mind break doujin

redtails said:

If you were able to vote on another country's election, seemingly going against what the people from that place want, how would that be helpful to them? If you invite non-members to become a member of this website, simply for voting on a BUR, how will that be beneficial to the people who are active members of danbooru? You mentioned it yourself that your motivation stems from exclusivity/inclusivity, which is not the goal of tags. You are arguing politics with people who are concerned about the technicalities of tags. We are aware of transsexuality just as we are aware of colorblindedness. In either cases the awareness and inclusivity of e.g. sexualities would not affect the reasoning as to why to tag something as A or B. It is not that political motives are by definition incompatible with visual recognition, but this is not a politics website and when people search for a tag, they expect to see a visual representation of that tag rather than a political debate in the form of artworks.

I might sound rude, this is not the goal :
-Everything is political, the simple fact you are alive and how you live is political, so yeah... obviously gthis is also a political debate, I mean, you can say "technicality" but look at what people say : "I don't want Bridget to be 1girl because the character is biologically male !". This is politics.

-We already stated (each side) that the "tag visually" just doesn't work.

-The vote thing could be good, but I think this is wrong and yet again political ironically. (I am prurely and simply against any xenophobia, which simply is : Xenophobia is the act of treating people differently because of their origin. And I made a whole paragraph about Nazi's and discrimination)

-I now have a real problem because instead of people trying to find solutions on how to tag Bridget (and trans character), there is a whole debate that over "No we will not tag Bridget and trans character correctly".

-You are always like "People want this" "People don't want that !", but... I am sorry yet again this is not against you, are you the people ? And yet again, I want Bridget to be at least know as trans on this website. So no, definitively, not evryone wants this, and not only "activists" as you refer to them.

-As for beneficial, I mean... what do you want more than normalize something that people literally die because of ? Like transphobia. Normalizing it would help a lot (studies have shown it also)

Are we circling back to "we should base our tagging decisions on whether I personally like canon" again? We really need to stop entertaining these types of derails, they're not constructive.

feline_lump said:

Here's what I think about these, personally:

• If otoko no ko characters are always tagged as that until proven otherwise, regardless of whether it matters or not, I assume transgender characters would be the same way. There are separate tags for situations where it does matter (the flag, gender transitioning, newhalf, etc.). Only thinking about GGS Bridget here, since she wasn't canonically trans in any other game.
• I tend to think transgender (mtf) and transgender (ftm) purely because they're in line with our genderswap tags. Easy to remember. If that's a problem and it ends up being too confusing or something, trans boy and trans girl work too.
• Whether people still want Bridget in their otoko no ko searches has been contested before. I suggested a pool so people could opt in or out of seeing very androgynous trans/futa/newhalf characters that tick all the right boxes. Failing that, we could just allow people to use otoko no ko alongside trans tags for utility reasons, even if that is a bit messy.
• I was about to say we don't really need to have both newhalf and a separate trans girl gender at the same time, no need to reinvent the wheel and such, but then topic #22189 happened. I will say that one benefit of collapsing everything into newhalf is that people are likely to have already blacklisted futanari if they don't like it.
• Likewise, when it comes to the other male/female tags, we decided that newhalf counts as a female, so I see no problem carrying that logic over. (It could be an issue if we mismatch 1boy and trans girl tags - which one gets precedence? - but we'll cross that bridge if we get to it...)

These stats may be useful to this situation, since we're often questioning whether Bridget stuff is "male" or "gay". Over 90% of all straight and gay men are disinterested in trans women, while the people who are interested are overwhelmingly bisexual. We should keep in mind that Danbooru in 2022 has way more gay users than it used to.

I don't understand the last point? Bridget still looks likes a average famboy in a lot of Strive posts

yototata1 said:

OH WOW, I didn't expect things to escalate this quickly.
-So yeah, normal people aren't you (fortunately), and I highly encourage you to read about biology and some research if you want to.
-"Normal people", just read what I said about Nazi's, you should be able to understand that "normal people" aren't necessarily doing the right thing
-Straight homophobia ? xD I mean, "Is this how you avoid the gay accusations?" couldn't really be more clear. I'm pretty sure you'll be just fine on this website anyway but, for those who have an honest interest, this is homophobic because here we can see that being gay is something worth of accusation, meaning bad. Worse, we have to avoid being gay by pretending being transgender which is yet again bad in the description of this person.

-Concerning the arc, I advise you to play the games because I think you missed some points xd

for the majority of human history

Penis/sperm=male.
Vagina/ovaries=female.

And there's a neat little category for those who fit both criteria called "intersex"

Trans men/women, 90% of the time are either male or female.

You aren't playing biologist with me, you are playing word games.

I'm done with this thread though. I often lurked on here but decided to give my two cents sorry if I derailed it a bit.

There are people here asking others on Twitter to take part in the vote! As much as i understand the desire for the change in tag, this is cheating and takes away from the validity of the poll

Maiyau said:

There are people here asking others on Twitter to take part in the vote! As much as i understand the desire for the change in tag, this is cheating and takes away from the validity of the poll

forum #222705

They're basically pissing away their time by doing so as they won't be counted, regardless of which way they're voting.

g6672D said:

They're basically pissing away their time by doing so as they won't be counted, regardless of which way they're voting.

How will this be enforced?

I don't even know why i bother drawing this character- it doesn't matter anymore, i'm done trying

Another episode of terminally online twitter folks making a mess to get their little "W" before forgetting about it and moving on to the next monthly drama? Shocking.

yototata1 said:

I might sound rude, this is not the goal :
-Everything is political, the simple fact you are alive and how you live is political, so yeah... obviously gthis is also a political debate, I mean, you can say "technicality" but look at what people say : "I don't want Bridget to be 1girl because the character is biologically male !". This is politics.

-We already stated (each side) that the "tag visually" just doesn't work.

-The vote thing could be good, but I think this is wrong and yet again political ironically. (I am prurely and simply against any xenophobia, which simply is : Xenophobia is the act of treating people differently because of their origin. And I made a whole paragraph about Nazi's and discrimination)

-I now have a real problem because instead of people trying to find solutions on how to tag Bridget (and trans character), there is a whole debate that over "No we will not tag Bridget and trans character correctly".

-You are always like "People want this" "People don't want that !", but... I am sorry yet again this is not against you, are you the people ? And yet again, I want Bridget to be at least know as trans on this website. So no, definitively, not evryone wants this, and not only "activists" as you refer to them.

-As for beneficial, I mean... what do you want more than normalize something that people literally die because of ? Like transphobia. Normalizing it would help a lot (studies have shown it also)

Stating that everything is political misses the point. We are not a politics website, so we don't discuss politics even if it can be discussed as such. Tag visually works fine if you accept this premise (i.e. don't canontag). Voting on a technical decision (i.e. tagging convention) is democratic, not per se politics . Out of interest,if you are against xenophobia, why are you so opposed to people having a different pov? Do you consider that political ideology is the only correct pov, especially on a website that is not about politics? Do you understand that similar concepts can be applied differently with different goals? E.g. a library catalogue will not "tag" crime books containing love scenes as a romance book, because people who search x want to find x. I don't really understand how your goals (inclusivity/exclusivity) are achieved through tagging convention. If anything, using e.g. "transsexual" ultimately only hurts your cause. No one is dying from the tags on drawings. If your feelings are hurt from fictional characters, it isn't the fault of that fictional character, nor the artist, nor the platform that catalogues it.

Izumi_blah said:

I don't even know why i bother drawing this character- it doesn't matter anymore, i'm done trying

I really understand you. I'm sending you all the love and thank you a lot for trying, it matters and shows that a lot of people care about this ! For what its worth, don't take this site too seriously, even mods are discriminatory and people recognize it, they just don't want to change.

Anyway, Smolbaka, you don't know a single thing about sex and gender. Unfortunately for you I did History of art and Archeology also. So yeah, this is bullshit from the literal first line of yours lol.
Again, I advise you to search on this subject.

Made this account just to say I hope this vote doesn't shape up to be the farce it looks like. You have people using twitter and the fact that they bent over other sites/boorus as some kind of "consensus", and these same people are already throwing a tantrum about the fact that this is still up for debate after learning their votes may not count. Some of these brand new accounts are also blatantly made by people that spend their free time harassing and gaslighting artists on pixiv/twitter for disagreeing with them, they're only acting semi-civil(outside the tantrums) in order to win some sort of favor here.

Just wanted to say my piece as someone passing through, I think the whole thing has a very simple answer, but i know you've mentioned trying to keep politics out of it, so ill leave it there. Also, I voted before reading that it wasn't meant to be an open thing, sorry for any confusion.