Bridget - Guilty Gear Strive

yototata1 said:

I really understand you. I'm sending you all the love and thank you a lot for trying, it matters and shows that a lot of people care about this ! For what its worth, don't take this site too seriously, even mods are discriminatory and people recognize it, they just don't want to change.

Anyway, Smolbaka, you don't know a single thing about sex and gender. Unfortunately for you I did History of art and Archeology also. So yeah, this is bullshit from the literal first line of yours lol.
Again, I advise you to search on this subject.

good job bullying away an artist and making them feel bad about what they created. Your efforts are truly appreciated.

redtails said:

good job bullying away an artist and making them feel bad about what they created. Your efforts are truly appreciated.

Well, don't hesitate to explain me how I am harassing anybody here, I am interested because I don't want to harass people and I refuse to do it.
Because to me it just looks like YOU are being exclusionary and you disprove your own arguments about "no politics" and "it hurts your cause", etc. I mean I just stated facts, what do you want me to do ? Lie ?
"Oh yeahhh, during neolithic people where super into 'penis = male' and 'vagina = female'", this is obviously false for those who didn't understand xD

I voted for the change because of the Yukio Mishima Joan of Arc problem.

There is another early memory, involving a picture book.
Although I learned to read and write when I was five, I
could not yet read the words in the book. So this memory
also must date from the age of four.
I had several picture books about that time, but my fancy
was captured, completely and exclusively, only by this one
-and only by one eye-opening picture in it. I could dream
away long and boring afternoons gazing at it, and yet
when anyone came along, I would feel guilty without
reason and would turn in a flurry to a different page. The
watchfulness of a sicknurse or a maid vexed me beyond
endurance. I longed for a life that would allow me to gaze
at that picture all the day through. Whenever I turned to
that page my heart beat fast. No other page meant anything
to me.
The picture showed a knight mounted on a white horse,
holding a sword aloft. The horse, nostrils flaring, was
pawing the ground with powerful forelegs. There was a
beautiful coat of arms on the silver armor the knight was
wearing. The knight's beautiful face peeped through the
visor, and he brandished his drawn sword awesomely in the
blue sky, confronting either Death or, at the very least,
some hurtling object full of evil power.I believed he would
be killed the next instant: ifl turn the page quickly, surely I
can see him being k.illed. Surely there is some arrangement
whereby, before one knows it, the pictures in a picture
book can be changed into 'the next instant.' • . .
But one day my sickourse happened to open the book to
that page. While I was stealing a quick sideways glance at
it, she said:
'Does little master know this picture's story?'
'No, I don't.'
'This looks like a mao, but it's a woman. Honestly. Her
name was Joan of Arc. The story is that she went to war
wearing a mao's clothes and served her country.'
'A woman ... ?'
I felt as though I had been knocked flat. The person I
had thought a he was a she. If this beautiful knight was a
woman and not a man, what was there left? (Even today I
feel a repugnance, deep rooted and hard to explain, toward
women in male attire.) This was the first 'revenge by
reality' that I had met in life, and it seemed a cruel one,
particularly upon the sweet fantasies I had cherished con
cerning his death. From that day on I turned my back on
that picture book. I would never so much as take it in my
hands again.

I can't fap to girls. I am here to fap. The knowledge that Bridget 'is female' has ruined all sex appeal she once possessed.
Though, I think the 'best' way to do it would be to denote a 'pre-Strive' and 'post-Strive' Bridget for those who aren't quite as autistically bothered by it?

can we stop with the personal jabs and actually like, wait for the BUR or something? i realize i perpetuated some of it but like come on

redtails said:

good job bullying away an artist and making them feel bad about what they created. Your efforts are truly appreciated.

The artist clearly stated they were uncomfortable with the guidelines being the way they were and felt peer pressured to add breasts to comply with them. They were also harassed on other sites before this. It is certainly 100% unrelated to the random user you're arguing with, but it may be relevant to our tagging policy to know that people could pull their art from here on that basis.

IMO this should be a case of pragmatism.
What are people expecting to find using the tags in question?
Are they intending to find male/female gender identity or are they intending to find male/female sex.
I would expect the later given the nature of the site.
It's a matter of functionality. Just slap a "This tag refers to biological sex." in the wiki and be done with it.

yototata1 said:

Well, don't hesitate to explain me how I am harassing anybody here, I am interested because I don't want to harass people and I refuse to do it.
Because to me it just looks like YOU are being exclusionary and you disprove your own arguments about "no politics" and "it hurts your cause", etc. I mean I just stated facts, what do you want me to do ? Lie ?
"Oh yeahhh, during neolithic people where super into 'penis = male' and 'vagina = female'", this is obviously false for those who didn't understand xD

Unnecessary drama and dragging out discussions is discouraging to readers. Therefore this will be interpreted as a toxic environment which artists may not want to be a part of. I'm neutral on the situation thus not exclusionary, no matter how you personally interpret it. What is truth or fiction isn't even relevant to the debate of tagging convention, but how is it helpful to anyone who wishes to become a woman or man to be labeled a transsexual? The segregation into a third sex isn't beneficial. That question is relevant to you, not to tagging convention. My last message to you on this matter is a question of why you are here? You have zero activity on your profile, and it seems you are only here to discuss this one topic. Do you enjoy arguing over sexuality? If so, you will get much more enjoyment on platforms more tailored towards political discussions, or even twitter.

yototata1 said:

I'm sorry to put it this way, but I highly advise you read about biology and research because your statement is incorect. You can read my comment page 12 or 13 but it isn't biology only as this topic is really hard. Again, it's not against you or to say you are bad, this is just scientifically incorect.

With all due respect, I don't care about your worldview. I also don't understand where this idea that "girl" and "boy" are terms divorced from sex and associated with the concept of "gender" instead is coming from, when even locally applied to this place alone, all it takes is a reading of the tags description. Bridget was born male, and to the best of my knowledge hasn't been subject to any gender changing magic or surgery. I repeat again, I would not have a leg to stand on if he got genderswapped in game. Unfortunately, he wasn't, and Ishiwatari can say he identifies as whatever as far as I'm concerned.

Dorion_VR said:

IMO this should be a case of pragmatism.
What are people expecting to find using the tags in question?
Are they intending to find male/female gender identity or are they intending to find male/female sex.
I would expect the later given the nature of the site.
It's a matter of functionality. Just slap a "This tag refers to biological sex." in the wiki and be done with it.

If that were the case, this matter would have been settled ages ago. But the fact of the matter is that the way the tagging system functions with *girl*/*boy*/*other*, it has never strictly functioned on purely biological sex, having always taken into account aesthetic and gender/canon whenever relevant.

It is not as simple as you put it, as had been repeated multiple times in this thread.

Damian0358 said:
It is not as simple as you put it, as had been repeated multiple times in this thread.

However those cases are not relevant here. The character in question is not a futanari or an intersex or anything unusual like that. It's a male who dresses like a girl. Most artwork even now continues to treat as such.

Damian0358 said:
It is not as simple as you put it, as had been repeated multiple times in this thread.

But the character in question isn't a futa or any of the edge cases. He's a male who now "identifies" as a female.

Y'all do realize trans people do exist in Japan, correct?

Just under another name most of the time. Here

This isn't about "but [group] didn't want it!!". The thing is, it happened. It's been confirmed. It's canon. It's not a headcanon anymore at this point, it's an official decision.

Astolfo said:

Accusations of bad faith are really poor coming from you, considering your previous account was permanently banned and you're still here debating on a new account.

Oh, was this the person banned for changing the tags from 1boy to 1girl?

Bridget actively didn't want to be a girl in previous games. The writing is backwards and bad.
https://twitter.com/liddle_lefty/status/1576008550379585538/

Japanese community didn't see a "coming out" story in the arcade mode, due to the very localized writing. One ending where an otoko no ko claims to be a girl wasn't enough for the VAST majority of Japan. This is made evident by Bridget trending #1 for two days in Japan after the dev backyard, due to their shock and disappointment.

By all accounts, it isn't explicitly shown in the story that Bridget has officially transitioned. An official announcement about "identifying as a woman" is the same thing as an official announcement that Hermione was black: https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/678888094339366914?lang=en

Should we retag all of the Hermione art as "dark_skin"?

The whole point of the tags is functionality. Nobody searching 1girl on their mostly porn site wants to be seeing a character with a dick. If you cave on this in any way, I promise you, it's the slipperiest slope of all time. There's going to be no end to it. You have to stand firm on this.

avidd said:

Bridget actively didn't want to be a girl in previous games. The writing is backwards and bad.
https://twitter.com/liddle_lefty/status/1576008550379585538/

Japanese community didn't see a "coming out" story in the arcade mode, due to the very localized writing. One ending where an otoko no ko claims to be a girl wasn't enough for the VAST majority of Japan. This is made evident by Bridget trending #1 for two days in Japan after the dev backyard, due to their shock and disappointment.

By all accounts, it isn't explicitly shown in the story that Bridget has officially transitioned. An official announcement about "identifying as a woman" is the same thing as an official announcement that Hermione was black: https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/678888094339366914?lang=en

Should we retag all of the Hermione art as "dark_skin"?

The whole point of the tags is functionality. Nobody searching 1girl on their mostly porn site wants to be seeing a character with a dick. If you cave on this in any way, I promise you, it's the slipperiest slope of all time. There's going to be no end to it. You have to stand firm on this.

Not the same. Hermione isn't black in most art of her.

Bridget 100% looks like a girl. You can't even claim it's TWYS at this rate.

This whole thing is complicated.

sadodere said:

Not the same. Hermione isn't black in most art of her.

Bridget 100% looks like a girl. You can't even claim it's TWYS at this rate.

If we're going to start tagging characters with unapplicable aspects for physical representations, why not?

user_944667 said:

Doesn't really matter who was asking for it. The creator did it of his own free will and considering that recent interview he didn't do it because he was trying to pander to the west. He literally talked about this being a change in the characters story in 2021 in a interview. That "bridget is a on journey to find out who she really is" is what he said last year when asked about her. In that recent interview they also talk about how Daisuke designs all of the characters years in advance even if he doesn't know that they'll appear in the game, so it sounds like to me he's had this planned for a long time.

Also on the "Otokonoko" trope, many people in japan consider the definition to be very broad. Where any character who has was born male and has a male body (No breasts and a penis) but is extremely feminine, regardless of gender identity to fall under the category of Otokonoko. They separate 2D and 3D representations for it. For instance, Jun Watarase who wants to be a girl and was elated in the story when she turned into one through magic, Shuichi from wandering son is still considered by many to be an otokonoko despite being a trans girl, Hibari Kun, Lily Hoshikawa, Alluka, Kiyoharu from magical girl site, even Mogumo from FukaBoku which is a non-binary/x-gender character explicitly is seen as a otokonoko by many still, Mei from the same series is a trans girl. All of these characters have a different gender identity then what they were born as, but many view them still as otokonoko, It just depends on the definition you use and many consider otokonoko and transgender to be compatiable labels. Here's a long twitter thread about it.
https://twitter.com/kdttrk/status/1571144949223264264

There's some veins who see Otokonoko as something that encompasses more identities, but the consensus seems to be that Otokonoko are boy, that's why so many people in Japan are against including trans characters and use a different tag and trope for them. Some of the characters you cited are seem as being boys by many, and the desire to be women is read as homosexuality, see that Jun Watarase got a route in the sequel of the Happiness VN, because fans wanted a boy, the same goes to Hibari-kun who was seem as a gay crossdresser, on the cases of characters like Mei or Lily, this view is not as prevalent as the trans one, in the case of ambiguous characters, they're accepted for being ambiguous, they're don't fit in any of the boxes, so it's okay to insert them because there's enough space for both feminity and masculinity, but those characters are seem as different from transexuals and their identity is sometimes as being just "ambiguous", so they don't give them labels like non-binary or wait else, because this would reduce ambiguity

redtails said:

Unnecessary drama and dragging out discussions is discouraging to readers. Therefore this will be interpreted as a toxic environment which artists may not want to be a part of. I'm neutral on the situation thus not exclusionary, no matter how you personally interpret it. What is truth or fiction isn't even relevant to the debate of tagging convention, but how is it helpful to anyone who wishes to become a woman or man to be labeled a transsexual? The segregation into a third sex isn't beneficial. That question is relevant to you, not to tagging convention. My last message to you on this matter is a question of why you are here? You have zero activity on your profile, and it seems you are only here to discuss this one topic. Do you enjoy arguing over sexuality? If so, you will get much more enjoyment on platforms more tailored towards political discussions, or even twitter.

Yeah so, as I thought you don't look like a bad person, so yeah, I understand that this all looks like drama, but if you are interested in why this is not, here are some articles.
And I KNOW, I am tiresome with all my "studies here, studies there". But this is one of the only tool we have to understand reality in the best way possible. Alone we cannot understand sh*t.

Here are some interesting things that might interest you and explain why this is important, not only to me, but a lot of people around the world :
- https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2020-22198-001
- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X22005122
- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376871620303884

-Some non gender related thing, because trying to be inclusive yknow https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/bitstream/handle/10919/83064/DiscriminationBiasCampus.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

And it goes, way, way deeper than that. One example would be to look at what people say, there are literally people saying "Biology says there is only male and female !" which is wrong and used by transphobes, and they will be perfectly fine on this site ! And yes I find it outrageous. That's why I'm here. (Also I am in Computer Science, so talking about how hard it is to change tags to me is not really it xd, gimme some time and I code this for you lol)

Anyway, I wish you the best, and no joking (idk why people think I'm sarcastic when I'm not lol)

avidd said:

Bridget actively didn't want to be a girl in previous games. The writing is backwards and bad.
https://twitter.com/liddle_lefty/status/1576008550379585538/

Japanese community didn't see a "coming out" story in the arcade mode, due to the very localized writing. One ending where an otoko no ko claims to be a girl wasn't enough for the VAST majority of Japan. This is made evident by Bridget trending #1 for two days in Japan after the dev backyard, due to their shock and disappointment.

By all accounts, it isn't explicitly shown in the story that Bridget has officially transitioned. An official announcement about "identifying as a woman" is the same thing as an official announcement that Hermione was black: https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/678888094339366914?lang=en

Should we retag all of the Hermione art as "dark_skin"?

The whole point of the tags is functionality. Nobody searching 1girl on their mostly porn site wants to be seeing a character with a dick. If you cave on this in any way, I promise you, it's the slipperiest slope of all time. There's going to be no end to it. You have to stand firm on this.

What if I draw Hermione as black? Should I put a white_skin tag on because everyone else does?

Also i checked back on this forum and we're now getting the "BRIDGET HAS A DICK AND WILL NEVER BE A REAL WOMAN" shit lol. I really don't feel comfortable using this website anymore knowing the moderation seemingly wants to erase trans characters and deliberately tag them inaccurately, and when people try to say that's wrong people try to say "you just joined today". Fuck me for trying to bring this site to the 2020s and not the early 2000s lol, I can clearly see I was wrong to ever think this place could improve

I guess it's just safebooru for me now

ravenmelloowo said:

What if I draw Hermione as black? Should I put a white_skin tag on because everyone else does?

Also i checked back on this forum and we're now getting the "BRIDGET HAS A DICK AND WILL NEVER BE A REAL WOMAN" shit lol. I really don't feel comfortable using this website anymore knowing the moderation seemingly wants to erase trans characters and deliberately tag them inaccurately, and when people try to say that's wrong people try to say "you just joined today". Fuck me for trying to bring this site to the 2020s and not the early 2000s lol, I can clearly see I was wrong to ever think this place could improve

I guess it's just safebooru for me now

If you draw hermione as black, but she identifies as white, what do you do then

If Bridget was drawn with breasts in 2012, but identified as male, what do you do then?

Tag what you see. This shit is not hard.