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anon7631 said:
Well, yes, but the point remains that the necessary tags already exist. Adding more just bloats the nomenclature without making anything that users will actually search for, easier to search for.
No, there is not a sufficient general tag to search for all transgender characters, or indeed any specific tag to search for them. They fall through the cracks in a bunch of other tags.
feline_lump said:
No, there is not a sufficient general tag to search for all transgender characters, or indeed any specific tag to search for them. They fall through the cracks in a bunch of other tags.
Crossdressing would catch it all and more. And while that "and more" is annoying and means it would include other things, that's an issue regardless of transgenderism (e.g. embarrassed vs unashamed crossdressing by one who considers himself a boy either way) and is too vague to further resolve with specific tags. In fact, those situations are more intrinsic to the image being tagged than transgender based on source dialogue, and they're STILL too vague.
Add in the fact that the same character can go from one to the other, embarrassed to embracing it, non-trans to trans — including Bridget, since regardless of which arguments about specific lines or "bad ends" are true, there are apparently lines within Strive that go either way, some with him saying he's a girl and others where he says he's a boy — and it becomes too much of a mess. If the tagging system requires you to outright guess which ending or where in the source's plot the image is set, to know whether he's transgender yet in order to tag, there's a problem with the system.
feline_lump said:
You're right, it doesn't include it if you cut off the script immediately before she says it. This is what I mean by "totally spurious headcanons".
>Discusses JP text
>Links English video
Er, k. Here's a JP video showing Normal, Hard, and Extreme perfect playthroughs, with some odd fight against Test at the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7voFmNtqj8A
Looks like what people are calling the "bad end" is the Hard playthrough's ending, and is the one where he says "because I'm a girl." Not sure if it's only if you lose a round or what -- do you only get on Extreme if you keep winning without losing a round? But in the Extreme (the "good end") there's no mention of him being a girl, just that he wants to have the confidence to talk about something. Presumably, since his family and town all think he's a girl, he's coming out to them as a man? Who knows.
Not sure what the text for the Testament fight at the end is. 男の子なんでから もっとしっかりしなきゃですわ へへ Anyone feel like tackling that?
Either way, it's a mess, it's current year, and outside of the bad ending there's nothing here.
anon7631 said:
Crossdressing would catch it all and more. And while that "and more" is annoying and means it would include other things, that's an issue regardless of transgenderism (e.g. embarrassed vs unashamed crossdressing by one who considers himself a boy either way) and is too vague to further resolve with specific tags. In fact, those situations are more intrinsic to the image being tagged than transgender based on source dialogue, and they're STILL too vague.
Add in the fact that the same character can go from one to the other, embarrassed to embracing it, non-trans to trans — including Bridget, since regardless of which arguments about specific lines or "bad ends" are true, there are apparently lines within Strive that go either way, some with him saying he's a girl and others where he says he's a boy — and it becomes too much of a mess. If the tagging system requires you to outright guess which ending or where in the source's plot the image is set, to know whether he's transgender yet in order to tag, there's a problem with the system.
All of the times in Strive where Bridget corrects someone over her gender happen before she officially comes out as a girl, and the "True" ending that some people have been claiming state she's a boy doesn't actually say that at all. You don't need to guess which ending, because all of them are canon, and none of them contradict the others.
And again, crossdressing does not equal trans. In fact, trans characters are already so rare, that it's actually safer to assume a crossdressing character isn't trans. Asking users to blacklist crossdressing, so that it can hide more than they want, and not hide anything that doesn't involve crossdressing, is nonsense.
blindVigil said:
All of the times in Strive where Bridget corrects someone over her gender happen before she officially comes out as a girl, and the "True" ending that some people have been claiming state she's a boy doesn't actually say that at all. You don't need to guess which ending, because all of them are canon, and none of them contradict the others.
And again, crossdressing does not equal trans. In fact, trans characters are already so rare, that it's actually safer to assume a crossdressing character isn't trans. Asking users to blacklist crossdressing, so that it can hide more than they want, and not hide anything that doesn't involve crossdressing, is nonsense.
He corrects Goldlewis in chapter one. "I'm a boy. These clothes are... a long story." It's literally only in the hard mode ending that he doesn't correct him and calls himself a girl. In the extreme ending, he instead talks about getting the self confidence to stand up for himself or somesuch claptrap.
The only way that makes sense is if he's coming out as a man. His family and society already expect him to be female, so it doens't make sense that he'd be coming out as female when everyone already has him pegged as such.
If I'm reading that Testament fight he calls himself a boy in it, too?
KiTA said:
>Discusses JP text
>Links English videoEr, k. Here's a JP video showing Normal, Hard, and Extreme perfect playthroughs, with some odd fight against Test at the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7voFmNtqj8A
Looks like what people are calling the "bad end" is the Hard playthrough's ending, and is the one where he says "because I'm a girl." Not sure if it's only if you lose a round or what -- do you only get on Extreme if you keep winning without losing a round? But in the Extreme (the "good end") there's no mention of him being a girl, just that he wants to have the confidence to talk about something. Presumably, since his family and town all think he's a girl, he's coming out to them as a man? Who knows.
Not sure what the text for the Testament fight at the end is. 男の子なんでから もっとしっかりしなきゃですわ へへ Anyone feel like tackling that?
Either way, it's a mess, it's current year, and outside of the bad ending there's nothing here.
Man, are you really coming in here and proclaiming everyone's wrong about the lore when you clearly have no knowledge of it yourself? She revealed her real sex to the villagers in her first appearance, that was six years ago. Why would her parents, who raised her, think she was really a girl this whole time? Why do you think she was raised as a girl? Obviously the thing she's afraid to talk about is admitting to the village that she actually is a girl, because it could undermine her entire journey to convince the villagers that same sex twins weren't bad omens.
blindVigil said:
All of the times in Strive where Bridget corrects someone over her gender happen before she officially comes out as a girl, and the "True" ending that some people have been claiming state she's a boy doesn't actually say that at all. You don't need to guess which ending, because all of them are canon, and none of them contradict the others.
And again, crossdressing does not equal trans. In fact, trans characters are already so rare, that it's actually safer to assume a crossdressing character isn't trans. Asking users to blacklist crossdressing, so that it can hide more than they want, and not hide anything that doesn't involve crossdressing, is nonsense.
he is a boy always has been always will be admitting that he is a girl invalidates his whole journey plus maybe you should really look at the Japanese original more to see why even the Japanese fans don't agree with the whole she thing.
I'm not opposed to the idea of having transgender tags as long as they don't get in the way of the system we already have, there are plenty of other quasi-canon tags and pet tags that only a handful of people care to maintain because they are the only ones who care about them, the only downside is that you can bet your ass it's gonna tag a lot of posts into an edit war.
As for any of the other proposed changes in this thread they are just plain nonsense as many others have already brought up
domanus said:
he is a boy always has been always will be admitting that he is a girl invalidates his whole journey plus maybe you should really look at the Japanese original more to see why even the Japanese fans don't agree with the whole she thing.
Pretty sure if the devs of the game say she's a girl now, then she's a girl. Not sure what authority you have to tell her creators what they can do with her.
blindVigil said:
Pretty sure if the devs of the game say she's a girl now, then she's a girl. Not sure what authority you have to tell her creators what they can do with her.
Yeah exactly you ignored what I said the dev never said that.
I'll quote someone else in this forem
Just as an aside, the Japanese text doesn't include the "because I'm a girl" thing.
Chapter 1:
>Goldlewis: 日を改めるとするよ お嬢ちゃん
Goldlewis : In another day, little lady.
>Bridget: ウチは…… 男です
Bridget: I'm... A man.
> Bridget : いろいろあって 女の子の恰好してるだけで……
Bridget: The girl appearance is because bunch of things happened.
>Goldlewis: ……そう か
Goldlewis: ... Its that so.
Chapter 1 (Bad ending IIRC?)
>Goldlewis:他にUMAを見かけたら教えてくれ お嬢ちゃん
Goldlewis: Let me know if you see another UMA (ユーマ, Unidentified Mysterious Animal), little lady.
>Bridget: ウチは…… 男です
Bridget: I'm... A man.
>Goldlewis: ……そうか それは失礼したな
Goldlewis: ... Its that so, excuse me.
Chapter 7 Bad Ending:
>Goldlewis: あぁ 元気でな お嬢ちゃん いや お坊ちゃんか?
Goldlewis: Ah, farewell, little lady, no, little boy.
>Bridget: お嬢ちゃん でいいですよ
Bridget: Little lady is fine.
The localizers literally rewrote the "calling me miss is fine" as "...because I'm a girl!" He's not trans, even in the bad ending. There's absolutely nothing in the Japanese version that says trans or even discusses gender identity. It's completely made up out of whole cloth by the localizers.
blindVigil said:
All of the times in Strive where Bridget corrects someone over her gender happen before she officially comes out as a girl, and the "True" ending that some people have been claiming state she's a boy doesn't actually say that at all. You don't need to guess which ending, because all of them are canon, and none of them contradict the others.
KiTA already posted a line where he pretty clearly seems to say he's an 男の子. Again, this whole discussion is coming about because he's originally a boy. It makes no sense to apply the transgender tag retroactively before he became transgender by claiming he's a girl.
blindVigil said:
And again, crossdressing does not equal trans. In fact, trans characters are already so rare, that it's actually safer to assume a crossdressing character isn't trans. Asking users to blacklist crossdressing, so that it can hide more than they want, and not hide anything that doesn't involve crossdressing, is nonsense.
I don't see any use case for that. If it's not in the image, as is the case for virtually EVERY Bridget image that any changed tagging policy would affect (so universally that I'm ignoring the case of images with relevant, specific dialogue), then it makes zero difference to people who don't know the character so blacklisting is unnecessary, and people who do know the character and want to blacklist transgenders on principle can blacklist him specifically.
We don't tag "vampire" on vampires if the image doesn't specifically include it either, even though that means people who want to blacklist "vampire" would still see those images.
blindVigil said:
Pretty sure if the devs of the game say she's a girl now, then she's a girl. Not sure what authority you have to tell her creators what they can do with her.
Says it in one bad ending and says the exact opposite, literally the exact opposite, in multiple other parts of the storyline. Also, there's the whole "this completely contradicts his characterization in literally every other piece of media he's been in" thing.
But Domanus has a good point, as some people have pointed out on twitter the Japanese aren't confused about this at all and find the idea that he's trans to be absurd. So what are they seeing that we don't?
domanus said:.
The localizers literally rewrote the "calling me miss is fine" as "...because I'm a girl!" He's not trans, even in the bad ending. There's absolutely nothing in the Japanese version that says trans or even discusses gender identity. It's completely made up out of whole cloth by the localizers.
Did you bother to watch the video of that exact scene that someone else linked? Where "Little lady is fine" comes right before "Because I'm a girl!"
How did they rewrite something, if it's literally still there?
blindVigil said:
Pretty sure if the devs of the game say she's a girl now, then she's a girl. Not sure what authority you have to tell her creators what they can do with her.
If the devs were actually retconning Bridget into actually being a girl, you might have a point, but that's not the argument. The argument is that he's transgender, which means he's still a boy.
blindVigil said:
Alright, forget it, lock the thread. This is just twitter now.
Is it tho? No one here as I saw has hurled insults or name called or at least if it happened it was not bad. But yeah I really am gonna say look into what the Japanese fans are thinking as well to really get the full picture that's all I am asking and that's the last thing I will say on this topic.
Seeing that 4chan post get quoted here, twice, makes me sad, since it clips all context and removes that convenient dropbox link that includes a rip of the final line where Bridget calls themself a girl. I don't even know if the 4chan post was even trying to mislead or if it was just to provide the context before the "I'm a girl" and some fuck on twitter took it out of context.
I had questions about this whole thing at first, considering the reactions from some trans and gnc male people, but if this is the level the "not trans" argument is going to operate at, I'm not sure I want to have this view anymore
domanus said:
Is it tho? No one here as I saw has hurled insults or name called or at least if it happened it was not bad. But yeah I really am gonna say look into what the Japanese fans are thinking as well to really get the full picture that's all I am asking and that's the last thing I will say on this topic.
Multiple people have derailed it by repeatedly posting unsourced misinformation and insisting people look up things they haven't provided any proof of
anon7631 said:
If the devs were actually retconning Bridget into actually being a girl, you might have a point, but that's not the argument. The argument is that he's transgender, which means he's still a boy.
And you're the one person in this thread who's actually saying transphobic things, repeatedly. FYI, you can't just disagree with the definition of a term when everyone but you uses it that way. Danbooru didn't decide on their own what trans girl and trans boy means, trans people did.
