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anon7631 said:
What? No, Bridget being a boy is the whole reason the debate exists. If he were a girl there would be no conflict.
No, no. Apparently Bridget is transgender, which would make her a girl. That's why this conversation came up. Again, I only have an outsider's view of things posted on this thread.
sadodere said:
No, no. Apparently Bridget is transgender, which would make her a girl. That's why this conversation came up. Again, I only have an outsider's view of things posted on this thread.
No, all this debate started because of line saying Bridget is a girl, with it claimed that that shows Bridget is transgender. That would make Bridget a trangender boy. A girl calling herself a girl obviously wouldn't be transgender.
anon7631 said:
No, all this debate started because of line saying Bridget is a girl, with it claimed that that shows Bridget is transgender. That would make Bridget a trangender boy. A girl calling herself a girl obviously wouldn't be transgender.
Doesn't Bridget have a dick? But then said she was a girl? She'd be a transgirl, no?
anon7631 said:
No, all this debate started because of line saying Bridget is a girl, with it claimed that that shows Bridget is transgender. That would make Bridget a trangender boy. A girl calling herself a girl obviously wouldn't be transgender.
That would make Bridget a transgender girl. "Transgender boy" would refer to a female-to-male character, most commonly.
sadodere said:
Doesn't Bridget have a dick? But then said she was a girl? She'd be a transgirl, no?
feline_lump said:
That would make Bridget a transgender girl. "Transgender boy" would refer to a female-to-male character, most commonly.
That makes no sense. A boy who is transgender is a transgender boy. That's just tautological. Female-to-male would be a transgender girl, and should accordingly be tagged 1girl.
[Edit: fixed incorrect quote]
Updated
feline_lump said:
If you need help finding out what "trans boy" and "trans girl" mean, please use Google.
But the meaning is clear. It makes no sense to call someone a trans girl if they're not a girl, as is the case with Bridget. He's a boy, so if the girl line makes him trans, that would make him a trans boy.
anon7631 said:
But the meaning is clear. It makes no sense to call someone a trans girl if they're not a girl, as is the case with Bridget. He's a boy, so if the girl line makes him trans, that would make him a trans boy.
You're mistaking the definitions... Male-to-female is transgirl, or transwoman. Female-to-male is transboy, or transman.
Honestly, this new discussion is pretty pointless and missing the real focus.
mongirlfan said:
Honestly, this new discussion is pretty pointless and missing the real focus.
Fair enough. I'll just reiterate my position and then be done.
The 1girl and 1boy tags should operate off what the character actually is. If people want to add transgirl and transboy tags (so 1girl transboy and vice versa, to use the definitions I disagree with) to fit dialogue then whatever (though I think it's entirely unnecessary), but the main tags should continue to reflect the character's actual sex. People search 1boy to find 1boy, and that includes boys like Bridget.
Changing the definitions of tags to prioritize that sort of dialogue over the character's reality would be, as I already said, as unhelpful as tagging Yukari as a loli when a gag has her pretend to be young.
Updated
Just as an aside, the Japanese text doesn't include the "because I'm a girl" thing.
Chapter 1:
>Goldlewis: 日を改めるとするよ お嬢ちゃん
Goldlewis : In another day, little lady.
>Bridget: ウチは…… 男です
Bridget: I'm... A man.
> Bridget : いろいろあって 女の子の恰好してるだけで……
Bridget: The girl appearance is because bunch of things happened.
>Goldlewis: ……そう か
Goldlewis: ... Its that so.
Chapter 1 (Bad ending IIRC?)
>Goldlewis:他にUMAを見かけたら教えてくれ お嬢ちゃん
Goldlewis: Let me know if you see another UMA (ユーマ, Unidentified Mysterious Animal), little lady.
>Bridget: ウチは…… 男です
Bridget: I'm... A man.
>Goldlewis: ……そうか それは失礼したな
Goldlewis: ... Its that so, excuse me.
Chapter 7 Bad Ending:
>Goldlewis: あぁ 元気でな お嬢ちゃん いや お坊ちゃんか?
Goldlewis: Ah, farewell, little lady, no, little boy.
>Bridget: お嬢ちゃん でいいですよ
Bridget: Little lady is fine.
>Bridget: ウチは……女の子ですから!
Bridget: because I am... a girl!
The localizers literally rewrote the "calling me miss is fine" as "...because I'm a girl!" He's not trans, even in the bad ending. There's absolutely nothing in the Japanese version that says trans or even discusses gender identity. It's completely made up out of whole cloth by the localizers.
Edit: The 4chan post was missing a line of text. This still only appears in the bad ending and is contradicted by every other mention of Bridget other than this SPECIFIC SINGLE LINE in a specific non-canon bad ending, including all other mentions of Bridget in Strive itself. The good ending that supersedes this ending doesn't mention gender at all and is instead about Bridget regaining his confidence to live his life how he wants.
Seems like a huge stretch to call him trans over that single line, but what do I know?
For reference, here's a video of the Japanese audio of all 3 difficulties, as well as a bonus video of a fight against Test where Bridget appears to call himself a guy, again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7voFmNtqj8A
Here is a video of all the English language stuff, too, but organized in a different way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W5ezv_xxOk
Updated
No, whether Bridget comes out as a girl doesn't matter. At the end of the day, people who aren't into traps wouldn't want to see Bridget especially if their dick is out. You can say just blacklist the genitals but then you also get rid of straight porn as well. What if both characters are like that then? Are we just gonna ignore the fact that they both got their dicks out? Why is this even a discussion in the first place? This is ludicrous.
KiTA said:
Just as an aside, the Japanese text doesn't include the "because I'm a girl" thing.
Chapter 1:
>Goldlewis: 日を改めるとするよ お嬢ちゃん
Goldlewis : In another day, little lady.
>Bridget: ウチは…… 男です
Bridget: I'm... A man.
> Bridget : いろいろあって 女の子の恰好してるだけで……
Bridget: The girl appearance is because bunch of things happened.
>Goldlewis: ……そう か
Goldlewis: ... Its that so.Chapter 1 (Bad ending IIRC?)
>Goldlewis:他にUMAを見かけたら教えてくれ お嬢ちゃん
Goldlewis: Let me know if you see another UMA (ユーマ, Unidentified Mysterious Animal), little lady.
>Bridget: ウチは…… 男です
Bridget: I'm... A man.
>Goldlewis: ……そうか それは失礼したな
Goldlewis: ... Its that so, excuse me.Chapter 7 Bad Ending:
>Goldlewis: あぁ 元気でな お嬢ちゃん いや お坊ちゃんか?
Goldlewis: Ah, farewell, little lady, no, little boy.
>Bridget: お嬢ちゃん でいいですよ
Bridget: Little lady is fine.The localizers literally rewrote the "calling me miss is fine" as "...because I'm a girl!" He's not trans, even in the bad ending. There's absolutely nothing in the Japanese version that says trans or even discusses gender identity. It's completely made up out of whole cloth by the localizers.
You're right, it doesn't include it if you cut off the script immediately before she says it. This is what I mean by "totally spurious headcanons".
Ze_Ze_Ze said:
No, whether Bridget comes out as a girl doesn't matter. At the end of the day, people who aren't into traps wouldn't want to see Bridget especially if their dick is out. You can say just blacklist the genitals but then you also get rid of straight porn as well. What if both characters are like that then? Are we just gonna ignore the fact that they both got their dicks out? Why is this even a discussion in the first place? This is ludicrous.
You could blacklist the proposed transgender tag afterwards. Honestly, we could probably leave the otoko no ko tag alone even if we do add it, to make things more seamless.
KiTA said:
The localizers literally rewrote the "calling me miss is fine" as "...because I'm a girl!" He's not trans, even in the bad ending. There's absolutely nothing in the Japanese version that says trans or even discusses gender identity. It's completely made up out of whole cloth by the localizers.
There is no bad ending, all endings are canon. This is coming directly from the devs, only thing they left unclarified is what order the endings take place in.
I've also seen just as many claims like yours as I have the reverse, that the Japanese and English dialogues say the same thing. You're no more credible than anyone else on this topic.
feline_lump said:
You could blacklist the proposed transgender tag afterwards. Honestly, we could probably leave the otoko no ko tag alone even if we do add it, to make things more seamless.
If the otoko no ko tag stays, then what need is there for a transgender tag? Otoko no ko already covers crossdressing boys, and reverse trap for the opposite. Both of those already convey everything relevant for tagging an image. What difference does it make for tagging the image if the source work has the boy calling himself a girl?
anon7631 said:
If the otoko no ko tag stays, then what need is there for a transgender tag? Otoko no ko already covers crossdressing boys, and reverse trap for the opposite. Both of those already convey everything relevant for tagging an image. What difference does it make for tagging the image if the source work has the boy calling himself a girl?
Otoko no ko is not specifically for crossdressing boys, someone can still pass as a girl without dressing as one, and someone crossdressing doesn't necessarily pass for the opposite sex.
anon7631 said:
Fair enough. I'll just reiterate my position and then be done.
The 1girl and 1boy tags should operate off what the character actually is. If people want to add transgirl and transboy tags (so 1girl transboy and vice versa, to use the definitions I disagree with) to fit dialogue then whatever, but the main tags should continue to reflect the character's actual sex. People search 1boy to find 1boy, and that includes boys like Bridget.Changing the definitions of tags to prioritize that sort of dialogue over the character's reality would be, as I already said, as unhelpful as tagging Yukari as a loli when a gag has her pretend to be young.
I don't know from what country you are, or if you're just out of the zeitgeist, but just as a friendly warning - it's increasingly unacceptable to say trans men or women are not "actual" men or women, and you could be penalized with fines or imprisonment if you said it publicly (in some places)
anon7631 said:
If the otoko no ko tag stays, then what need is there for a transgender tag? Otoko no ko already covers crossdressing boys, and reverse trap for the opposite. Both of those already convey everything relevant for tagging an image. What difference does it make for tagging the image if the source work has the boy calling himself a girl?
There are many different types of transgender characters, and not all of them look exactly like otoko no ko characters. Even narrowly speaking, femboys who are proud to be boys have a slightly different (if overlapping) audience compared to characters trying to become girls.
blindVigil said:
Otoko no ko is not specifically for crossdressing boys, someone can still pass as a girl without dressing as one, and someone crossdressing doesn't necessarily pass for the opposite sex.
Well, yes, but the point remains that the necessary tags already exist. Adding more just bloats the nomenclature without making anything that users will actually search for, easier to search for.
