Duplicate of pool #10263.
Posted under General
Duplicate of pool #10263.
pool #11002 - ..
Empty pool; looks to have been accidentally created.
pool #10270
Isn't this pool covered by pool #10686?
Provence said:
pool #10270
Isn't this pool covered by pool #10686?
There are 4 pictures in pool #10270 that wouldn't be eligible for pool #10686 (picture IDs 2089029, 2149698, 2227198 and 2017959) but for the most part, yes, and the latter pool originated from being a less specific version of the former.
Provence said:
pool #10270
Isn't this pool covered by pool #10686?
I'm in favour of keeping pool #10270 (Shiratsuyu-class). It fulfills a specific purpose: collecting images of all Shiratsuyu-class destroyers, as it's fairly uncommon to find them all in single image.
The class reunion pool (pool #10686) is much more broad, and I would argue useless. It's inclusion criteria (... most or all of a single class of ship... Class must contain at least four members...) allow for pictures depicting the Akatsuki-class and Kongou-class. Those two sets of four ships appear together so often it would completely overload the pool. Additionally the pool is not very well policed, for example post #2251456, post #2242885 and post #2222875 shouldn't be included as they are missing Yamagumo and Asagumo. Also, the criteria "as implemented at the time" further erodes the usefulness, as it theoretically requires one to look up whether ships weren't implemented at that point in time, or the artist merely left them out. It also means images like post #1670984 and post #1603702 are included, and I question whether someone looking for pictures of the entire Kagerou-class would be happy with those results, as they are now far outdated.
pool #10686 is no substitute for pool #10270.
pool #11056 is completely redundant, since there is already a tag that covers multiple crossovers.
Popebug said:
pool #11056 is completely redundant, since there is already a tag that covers multiple crossovers.
+1
There's also the "copytags" search option that's covered in the search cheatsheet on the wiki.
Kouji (Campus Life) has been receiving an inordinate number of pools. A few users have taken to creating a new pool every time there's a change in the title of what is put on the artist's account. (Titles which, of course, aren't used by the artist for categorization, while pools are.)
This has resulted in 27 different pools under the name Kouji (Campus Life) associated with the artist.
Many of these pools are redundant and have few images. The "Kouji's colorful kanmusu" contains multiple sub-pools that are just images of specific characters in that pool (obtainable by searching for that character within that pool). This includes a pool for Prinz Eugen sketches that contains exactly one post. The "<character> sketches in <color>" pools could all easily be made a single pool.
The catchall pool is pool #11227
The following can be merged into it (and most besides the Fubuki ones are already there):
pool #11220
pool #11140
pool #10920
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Additionally, Kouji's "main comic" revolving around "the Admibro" is a single story/continuity (which generally is the criteria for what makes a single pool) that is broken into about a dozen distinct pools based upon whether it is a full strip, a 4-koma, a 2-koma, or a few stories put into books that focus upon a specific character like Akatsuki, I-58, or Ooi. The fact that these different pools are fragments of the same story that cannot be fully understood without following all of them chronologically functionally makes the pools useless, because you have to follow all the artist's works on the continuity chronologically to understand it, while what goes in what pool skips around randomly based upon whether Kouji felt like doing some 2komas for a change.
"Admibro" storylines:
pool #8575
pool #8743
pool #8747
pool #8774
pool #9135
pool #9195
pool #9196
pool #9197 (This one may be more "side-story" than the rest, because it doesn't seem to come up again.)
pool #9611
pool #9746
pool #9885
pool #10101
pool #10684
This random wad of pools has out-of-date links to the other pools trying to tell readers where to go to try to make heads or tails of the continuity, but it really would work best as just a single main pool, (especially the bringing of the 4-komas, 2-komas, the plainly-titled "Kouji manga" and "Today's Naval Base" into a single pool, since these are plainly meant to be read together,) with the possible exception of some of the book side-stories.
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Although not quite as confusing, there is also the Fubuki-centric storyline with a different admiral broken into a relatively more minor two pools:
pool #10859
pool #11105
Since it is basically a single story (one pool is a flashback setting up the events of the other pool), it makes more sense as one pool.
Updated
My 2cents on Kouji (Campus Life)'s pools;
Comics & stories probably are better off in different pool - even if some of them are in the same universe, physically they would be different books with different titles/styles (2koma, etc)
Like for pool #10859 & pool #11105 - I'm not quite sure if you could just stick all the posts of the later pool in front of the first pool, would feel a bit off. Renaming the pool to include everything of that universe could work for these 2, but the ordering on that would be terribly messy for the "Admibro" series.
(Speaking of which, i noticed the 11th page in the 'Everlasting Summer Blizzard' pool says "chapter 6", kinda odd)
The pools for sketches are quite redundant though, kouji_(campus_life) monochrome or kouji_(campus_life) monochrome -comic could easily replace the pool
Updated
Kouji has a bunch of books out there, but unless they're all in the same series (like the Everlasting Summer Blizzard ones) they belong in separate pools. Otherwise, we might as well pit all of Warugaki's report manga in one pool, despite them being about different stories (different convention experiences)
For the color sketches, I prefer that either we maintain the pools as-is, merge them all into the Fubuki Sketches pool without renaming it as the Fubuki sketches outnumber the rest 12 to 1), or we should make a tag for it (like a mono-color_sketches or. Kouji_sketch) and drop the pools completely. Otherwise, searching is a pain in the ass - and Kouji himself noted in the comments for each of those colour sketches that it's a pool.
Who are we to tell him that he's wrong?
Warugaki's report mangas are different complete stories, however, written and designed to be read separately from one another. Basically, it's like a serialized set of novels.
The big problem in the "Admibro" series is that we are basically taking a chapter or two out of a book, and declaring it its own book. There are events missing when you take the 4-komas out of the story, and it is generally written as a continuous story that switches viewpoints occasionally. This would be like creating new Puchimasu! pools based upon who the point of view character in that strip happened to be.
At the very least, there should be a "main" storyline pool that absorbs all the #-koma pools and links to the stories that were in books, as well as a link to where they were, chronologically. This seems to be what pool #8575 was trying to do before people forgot to update it, and "new" "main" series pools started cropping up. (Not that we couldn't use the title from one of the later "main" pools...) Then, book stories like Golden Lamplight can be separate, but Today's Naval Base and the 2-koma pool are in intended order in the main story. pool #8743 even says in its description that it doesn't make sense to be placing things in pools in this way, it's just being segregated out because it had a different title based upon being Haruna-centric.
And for clarity, when I say "chronologically," I mean "chronologically by date posted", so Star Wars would be posted 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 7. The "Lonely Island" pool goes near the end of the "Everlasting Blizzard" pool chronologically. The series is written to be read in the order posted, not chronological by story timeline.
Pools should exist to help a reader understand how a series of related posts were meant to be read. Making it so that readers have to zig-zag between pools to try to figure out what order they were supposed to read it in (or, as everyone actually reading Kouji did, just give up and not use the pools at all,) defeats the purpose of pools existing in the first place.
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As for Fubuki sketches getting a separate pool because there are more of them, now, that does nothing to future-proof this problem from happening again. What happens if he goes off on a Ooi-sketching spree next? Do we split the pool based upon some arbitrary threshold of Ooi pictures?
Pools exist for organizational/searching purposes, and there's little reason not to merge them all into a single pool. (In fact, there's arguably little purpose for any of the sketches to have any pool, since they have no continuity between them, and "sketches by this one artist" is easily searched by tag.) I don't see the upside in a sub-pool that just has the Fubuki posts from another pool's contents, since that's easily searched, and even if we did say there was some point to the ordering, segregating them defeats the purpose of the pools for the reasons listed above. This line of reasoning is, honestly, the reason we have this unmanageable mess of pools in the first place.
Updated
For Admibro stories like the 2koma_Theatre, those share a pool as they've the same style of story and have obvioua connections. Ones like Little Seven or The First Flagship, less so despite being in the same universe. Otherwise, Everlasting Summer Blizzard goes into the LesAdmiral pool, as it's the same universe and shares characters. We're basically saying that the stories, separated into different books, doesn't matter for the purposes of pools.
For the color sketches, if they're all going together, we might as well dump the Colorful Kanmusu pool into the Bucky pool, or just give them all a tag and remove the pool - the reason that Fubuki got a pool of her own is because the first hundred or so sketches were all hers until he drew other shipgirls, alternating her with others.
Otherwise, I'd argue that, if being first doesn't matter, that pools like Paparazzi Shameimaru should be renamed and that we fold the very similar Reporter Aoba pool into it as they display similar behaviours and the pools collect similar pictures despite being different copyrights.
Or, for that matter, all the Admibro and LesAdmiral stuff be folded together, especially as the Ooi story includes both characters.
Then we need to do the same to all of Shino's Mokou and Flandre Stories as they're basically continuing one another. Ditto all of Yuzu Momo's Bakery Kazami, as they're all the same story, separated by books.
That's going to be a lot of work, but that's where we're going.
I left out Little Seven because it seems it might be it's own continuity. At least, it's not yet clear there's a direct connection.
Whether you dump the colorful sketches into the Buki pool or vice versa is just six of one or a half dozen of the other, as long as the title reflects that's it's not just Fubuki pictures anymore for clarity.
And in any event, I'm not trying to argue that we need some massive effort to consolidate pools generally; I think it would work as well, and honestly would prefer it if there were books in a single dependent continuity that were just one pool, but in those, people generally link the pools to one another and you read through all of one, then go to the next. (I've seen it both ways - a book a pool, or a pool with many books, and a link to where a particular book or chapter starts.) The purpose of the pool is just ordering and making it easier to sequentially find the next part of a story. The problem in Kouji's case is that all of these different pools have random snippets of different parts of the same story, and following the pool front-to-back means you miss out on intervening events.
Further, "collection pools" don't have any of these continuity issues. If you start saying that Aoba and Aya are the same meme, then it opens a whole subjective can of worms, since they're basically "meme pools", and it's an argument whether it's the same meme or not. That opens up "Told you not to do that" and "Impending doom" and "You gonna get raped" and some others for argument. It's just that having a one-post pool is getting silly, and there's really little reason for these sketches to be different pools other than "we already made a pool for it".
As for the work it would take, at least as far as Kouji's goes, I don't mind doing the work of integrating some of those minor pools into the right place in a main pool, myself. I just want to make sure we have consensus, first.
In the end, I'm fine with stripping all of the Fubuki and Kouji shipgirls sketches - what I'm against is quibbling over whether we need one pool or more than one pool. Fubuki into a pool created later got a pool because she was the first shipgirl Kouji gave her a series of daily sketches and in a specific style. Then he gave some of the other shipgirls similar sketches, starting with Suzuya.
No, we don't need a pool for Prinz Eugen - I agree with that. What I don't agree with its folding Bucky into a pool created later because it's "convenient" to search. We might as well dump her pool and the Colorful Shipgirl pools entirely. Maybe we can get a tag on all of them like "limited palette" on them instead of monochrome.
For the Admibro pools, the Haruna stories may or may not have happened in the same continuity. The 2koma Theatre, I suggest can stay separate as stylistically is different from the main storyline. The Akatsuki and Animal Ears ones? I'm not sure they belong in the same "canon" - and maybe not the Shipgirls Daily Lives stories, as I'm not sure they're part of the same storyline either despite sharing an author and general characters, as I'm not sure events in the previous manga were also part of the Daily Lives time line - any more than the official Fubuki manga shares a continuity with the official LN or the anime despite sharing a setting and characters.
Another solution to searching is to link the pools in their descriptions the way the Bakery Kazami pools are set up.
Nitrogen09 said:
Is this pool really necessary?
Admittedly it's not really an easy thing to search for with tags at the moment. How about we have a kantai_collection_(anime) tag for posts that reference the anime in particular? Then it can be covered by a kantai_collection_(anime) swimsuit tag search.
EB said:
Admittedly it's not really an easy thing to search for with tags at the moment. How about we have a kantai_collection_(anime) tag for posts that reference the anime in particular? Then it can be covered by a kantai_collection_(anime) swimsuit tag search.
Good idea. This new tag seems fine enough, since there aren't any other spin-off Kancolle copyright tag at the moment and a good number of fanarts also reference the anime.
For Kouji's monochrome sketches, I support merging them into a single pool. Separating by characters is useless, since it's as simple as searching for "pool:<N> character". Also, he's done monochrome kancolle sketches before, about 2 years ago.
About merging his Admibro stories, though, we should proceed with caution. Most side-stories are referenced as flashbacks and were posted later on, throwing them all in the single pool in upload order could confuse the reader even more, since those jump back and forth in the timeline, not to mention some of these pools are from doujins rather than pixiv, IIRC.
That said, figuring out the order in which side stories happened, relative to "main" stories, might be helpful. One solution would be to decide on a "main" pool, and then include all the other pools in a particular order, thus keeping the side story posts in two pools.
(Sorry to delay in getting back to this...)
Anyway, I'd honestly think it best to put them in order of release (at least, of initial versions, since Kouji is keen on revisions,) since that's how they are meant to be understood. To go back to Star Wars for a second, if you watch Episode 3 before Episode 4-6, then the identity of Luke and Leia are totally spoiled, and it ruins part of the plot. If the story has a flashback to what happened before chapter 1 in chapter 5, then there is often good reason it still belongs in between chapter 4 and 6.
As for keeping 2koma separate because the art style is different, I'm not sure I see the logic, there. pool #7261, Secretary Fleet Girl Nagatsuki-chan, for example, has "serious" posts in detail followed up by rougher sketches that are just reaction gags. The art style changes far more dramatically in that pool, but nobody claims the sketchy gag posts need to be a separate pool there, because it would make following what's going on significantly harder.
As for continuity, I'll point out that Kouji puts things in books that have continuity in the series. We don't have the book uploaded, but in one of the books, Murakumo was ringed, and she just suddenly shows up with a ring in the "main" continuity uploaded on the web without the context of what was in the books.
As for simply doing away with the monochrome sketch pools entirely, that's honestly probably better in terms of setting a single consistent policy, although I also suspect more people will get upset over it. Having a pool for all the monochrome posts doesn't really hurt anything, at least, and I suspect some people would find following the pool easier. Hence, I think a single consolidated pool that just says "Fubuki and co. in monochrome" would be enough.
Beyond that, I'm not quite sure what your criteria are for being a different pool.
To make clear my thoughts, I'd personally think that we could get by with a single main "Admibro" pool, which could probably be the "Today's Naval Base" pool. (Before that, the main pool was untitled/just went by "Kantai collection manga".) The #-komas, and the Akatsuki-, Haruna-, Ooi-, and Goya-centric ones with the exception of the masochistic Haruna one could all be swept up into that single pool, with only the more obviously "side-story" sequences like the dog ear and the M Haruna ones being pulled to the side, as all the rest seem to be the same continuity. I'd also merge the two Fubuki pools, and make all the merges by date of first posting.