Posted under General
Sacriven said:
Then doesn't that mean its not a legal reason though?
That's why we need the Howto. I don't see derivative_work as a flagging reason as long as you tag it properly, and maybe link to the parent in the comments or via parent/child relationship if the parent is on Danbooru.
Beyond that, some derivative_work posts are more parody, like anything with the Osaka runner art, etc. Others are based on photos, such as post #2494061 and are good works in their own right.
Sacriven said:
Then doesn't that mean its not a legal reason though?
It doesn't. pixiv sample and bad anatomy aren't listed on the flag box either, and they're still commonly used as flag reasons.
I personally think derivative work should be worthy of deletion when, if you subtract the effort put in by the artist being copied, the remainder of the work is subpar. That isn't the case for post #2497137.
feline_lump said:
It doesn't. pixiv sample and bad anatomy aren't listed on the flag box either, and they're still commonly used as flag reasons.
I personally think derivative work should be worthy of deletion when, if you subtract the effort put in by the artist being copied, the remainder of the work is subpar.
There's a difference between a trace and a derivative_work - one shows no skill beyond being able to follow lines or use a filter, while the latter will show the artist's style. I don't believe in automatically flagging or deletion of derivative_work posts - a review at most with flagging of the ones which appear to be traces.
Lannihan said:
Maybe, but still it's not a "worked" draw like the original, that argument of the Trace is associated to the level of work implied there, if the artist like certain body, pose or like to imitate some styles its valid, but depend a lot of how the uploader and flagger is capable to see that level of work or not.
The rest, just keep discussing about someone who will not read this or will keep the spam of flags.
Then this guy should be contacted with a DMail from a moderator. They can see who flagged what with whatever reason.
Sacriven said:
Insult? What makes me mad that he's still flagging it despite it's clearly written on flag box about what do's and do not's for flagging reason.
The flag box doesn't cover the entire site's ruleset.
Look, the point I'm trying to make is that flag isn't vandalism and it's not worth trying to drag this person out into the oepn for some kind of flagger witch hunt. At worst it's some overeager guy that needed to lurk more and a simple dmail or comment telling him where he went wrong should fix the problem. If he still keeps flagging with that reason after that, THEN it's vandalism.
Either way you shouldn't blow a gasket over flags, even actual vandalism. It's not that big of a deal. It's this kind of thing that's been demonizing flags and creating unnecessary drama everytime there's a red border on a post.
Hoobajoob said:
Either way you shouldn't blow a gasket over flags, even actual vandalism. It's not that big of a deal. It's this kind of thing that's been demonizing flags and creating unnecessary drama everytime there's a red border on a post.
I won't blow a gasket if the reason isn't that irrelevant. If the flagger at least commented his/her proof of tracing like Flandre5carlet did, I'll still accept it. The fact that he/she immediately flags it without further research or at least, asking a moderator for it, is what infuriated me.
Demonizing? More like a strict criticism. Every users here learned through the hard way with piece by piece. If you aren't scolded even for once in here, well you know what will happens. Much like users with bad tagging habit, it's also applied to other "jobs" in here (translator, flagger, etc.)
Unnecessary drama won't happen if only they followed the rules or at least, participating in forum even for once to clarify their doubt. Criticism helps to speeding the process.
Guys, we have a howto.
Feel free to improve it if you see a gap, but it should be first discussed here.
As far as I can see is there no mentioning in the howto. So maybe an admin has something definitive to say about this ( @NWF_Renim @Type-kun @Hillside_Moose @albert ).
Especially this sentence looks like a problem: "Anyone may flag a post for any reason."
Sacriven said:
I won't blow a gasket if the reason isn't that irrelevant.
Unnecessary drama won't happen if only they followed the rules
You can't put the responsibility of controlling yourself and your emotions on others. They aren't making you mad, you're letting yourself get mad over trivial things. Do you see any mods getting angry over this? They're being professional and handling these kinds of problems without tableflipping or getting out torches and pitchforks.
Go look at some of the feedback that users get for rule breaking. It's not angry or cussing at anyone. Hell, I even see you giving feedback to undertaggers and you're not losing your cool there, so what's the deal here?
Rastamepas said:
If only people didn't flag for fucking stupid reasons. kthnxbai
The point was that some people whine about flags, insult flaggers and generally throw a fit regardless of how valid and warranted a flag is. Nothing about stupid flags with stupid reasons such as the one that started the thread and which are obviously bad. "kthnxbai" seriously?
Updated
I say things are fine the way they are. Keep in mind flags are rate limited, even for gold account users, to 10 a day. Even assuming every flag a user makes is an act of vandalism, this really limits the amount of damage they can cause. And it's not a final act; there's still a secondary step of someone confirming or rejecting a flag. The conditions for flagging are intentionally vague and open ended. If a post is borderline then why should judgement be sacrosanct just because it was uploaded by a contributor or it was already approved once? And a deleted post is still accessible, it's just hidden by default from searches. You can either use a status metatag to include it, or just link to the post directly.
albert said:
The conditions for flagging are intentionally vague and open ended. If a post is borderline then why should judgement be sacrosanct just because it was uploaded by a contributor or it was already approved once?
This makes a trouble always, because the flaggers are not capable to develop the concept, so I think most of the moderators or approvers have to use personal judgment aside of the original reasons to keep the deletion, and that complicates a lot the discussion around the flags and makes more complicated to appeal even if there are valid options to keep the image visible.
Jarlath said:
There's a difference between a trace and a derivative_work - one shows no skill beyond being able to follow lines or use a filter, while the latter will show the artist's style. I don't believe in automatically flagging or deletion of derivative_work posts - a review at most with flagging of the ones which appear to be traces.
derivative work was originally meant to include any kind of copying, everything from copying poses from other artists, to using photo references, up to tracing and actual plagiarism. Source: I created the tag in topic #3263 following the discussion in post #393574. So derivative work includes many things that aren't necessarily bad or deserve to be deleted. I'd agree it only warrants a flag if it's an especially bad trace or something.
Provence said:
Especially this sentence looks like a problem: "Anyone may flag a post for any reason."
I meant that as "Anything can get flagged by anybody for any made-up reason they want, but don't freak out, if the reason is bullshit the mods will take care of it."
Just a month ago there was a drawn out discussion about the contributor status which seems to have ended with the takeaway that tagging should be more common and not stigmatized. Now it's suggested people are making frivolous flags, seems a little ironic to me.
I suggest making a discussion thread for posts which a user deems flaggable but is not sure. Mods and other users could assess their concerns and weigh whether there are valid reasons for deletion.
chodorov said:
I suggest making a discussion thread for posts which a user deems flaggable but is not sure. Mods and other users could assess their concerns and weigh whether there are valid reasons for deletion.
Oh, I have found tons of such posts each day.
No seriously: If in doubt then I wouldn't flag it and only flag posts when you are convinced that there are serious flaws.
You can still contact the possible approver afterwards if the flag is resolved with an approval.
But ok, there are persons who can't really good express what they want to say about a post and don't flag it in the end. So I don't know about this. I don't mind :3.
Btw why tagging in the first paragraph? I think you mean "flagging" :3.
