Donmai

Flag Vandalism

Posted under General

Jarlath

Apollyon said:

The neck could be drawn better, but that isn't enough of a problem to where the entire post should actually be deleted. But I will agree that the flag reason is, frankly, bad. If people are suddenly serious about managing quality through flags, then there should be actual descriptions on what's wrong instead of silly questions with emotes.

In general, this is directed at @Provence and anyone else currently eager to hit the Flag link for whatever your idea of Quality Control is: Start using some discretion and flag for things more egregious than minor details in pictures that don't actually ruin an entire picture for people other than you.

Dragging otherwise decent posts into deletion in the name of pointing out a minor problem is stretching what's intended to be quality control. And if this flagging is scattershot enough to where people are openly taking it personally, pointing it out, not just in comments, but also in a thread called "Flag Vandalism", maybe the flaggers themselves need to be looked at and held to some scrutiny.

I'm getting tired of seeing things on this site being done in volume to the point of bordering on overkill instead of having some actual nuance being taken. Involvement should not excuse excess. Wise up.

That's pretty much my stance on flagging and flag vandalism - it's one thing if the art's bad enough that it shouldn't be here... but at the same time, flagging for very minor issues is wasting the approver's time and clogging up the mod queue for no good reason.

And unfortunately, "involvement into excess" is pretty much the status quo on the Internet, as much as I detest it.

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user 460797

Jarlath said:

That's pretty much my stance on flagging and flag vandalism - it's one thing if the art's bad enough that it shouldn't be here... but at the same time, flagging for very minor issues is wasting the approver's time and clogging up the mod queue for no good reason.

And unfortunately, "involvement into excess" is pretty much the status quo on the Internet, as much as I detest it.

Yeah, but it is easy to say that is is minor, especially if it gets approved by a Janitor then.
Flags are there for asking opinion in my eyes, sometimes a second opinion if one really can't agree with an approval.

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Astolfo

Apollyon said:

And if this flagging is scattershot enough to where people are openly taking it personally, pointing it out, not just in comments, but also in a thread called "Flag Vandalism", maybe the flaggers themselves need to be looked at and held to some scrutiny.

Some users are going to take every flag personally regardless of how bad the art is, how well described and valid the flag is or if they uploaded the picture in the first place. I don't think that people taking offense to a flag is a very valid way of measuring said flag's validity, because if it was so then the vast majority of flags would be invalid.
While yes, flaggers should be held to some scrutiny, at the same time they're most usually dogpiled with excuses like "worse things were approved before" at best, when it isn't inflammatory comments and such - and I don't think that someone flagging a post for something minor is as big a deal as obvious troll flags and other vandalism. Of course flaggers should use discretion, but it's also quite a subjective issue. What may seem like a minor detail to some may be a baffling error to others.
At the end of the day, a flag is nothing more than a blue border asking for either a second opinion, or a single approver's opinion if the post bypassed the queue.
Anyways, this isn't really the point of the topic, so I digress.

Sacriven said:

-snip-

I flagged that picture; I found the errors really detracted from the overall picture, which is a shame because it'd be really pretty otherwise. Re: the legs; I did in retrospect realise that she was sitting in seiza position, but the legs/hips still looked really weird to me.
Either way it's up to approvers. I don't think I would have flagged it if it went through the queue, so I was simply pinging for approver review.

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Jarlath

Provence said:

Yeah, but it is easy to say that is is minor, especially if it gets approved by a Janitor then.
Flags are there for asking opinion in my eyes, sometimes a second opinion if one really can't agree with an approval.

It's easy to say that issues which minor will easily get reapproved - as long as the queue isn't backed up to hell and there are enough approvers working it. It's another thing when perfectly good posts get times out because they didn't come across an approver's desk in time - and that's just for new posts. Posts that get flagged may get more attention after the furor of the Contributors vote, but I don't expect that to last.

And that's my concern - should people be trawling through Albert's old posts flagging eleven year old posts with a simple "quality check" or "anatomy check" reasons? No. If they're including more data, so that I can spot the issue immediately, then that's a decent flag and speeds up the process of approving or denying, as well as letting new posts get their time in front of an approver.

Flagging for quality control is one thing, but minimal flagging reasons or flagging for the smallest of issues (if it's not jumping from out at me even with a general idea of the problem area, it's not a big enough issue to flag for) is pretty much harassment or flag abuse.

And I already voted for the howto:flag thing by mentioning it a few pages back (forum #120062).

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evazion

So it turns out we already have an about:unapproved posts. Except it was written five years ago in topic #5471 and immediately forgotten. And speaking of topic #5471, it's five years later and we're still complaining about all the same stuff to this day:

S1eth said five years ago:
On that note, the popular flagging reason "needs review/second opinion" is pretty useless and redundant, but the more and better reasons I give for a post to be deleted/reviewed, the more people complain in the comments. Typically, it's "X is not so bad", "that's the artist's style" and "I've seen worse approved".

Danbooru. Danbooru never changes.

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user 460797

evazion said:

So it turns out we already have an about:unapproved posts. Except it was written five years ago in topic #5471 and immediately forgotten. And speaking of topic #5471, it's five years later and we're still complaining about all the same stuff to this day:

Danbooru. Danbooru never changes.

I did a little change.
By the way: I think that Janitors can't see the person who flagged a post. Well, I can't see them but can approve posts. So maybe an active Janitor like could help out here^^?

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buehbueh

I don't have the ability to either, and I am an active janitor. It's kinda hard to stop flag vandals when you have no idea who's doing it, you end up waiting till a mod can do something about it or the person reveals themselves. That said, I understand why they instituted the rules the way they did with it, but I think it was partially because janitor is a relic rank, and most of us will be demoted to builder with powers and a few promoted to mod eventually.

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Sacriven

Flandre5carlet said:

I superposed both pictures in Photoshop. It doesn't seem traced at all, if anything just heavily inspired. https://gyazo.com/4f8523911a27d5f348c53bb0f6cdb630 It just seems like houdukixx really liked the pose drawn by tomoe and wanted to replicate it as closely as possible. The fact that the flag says "possible" art trace says quite a bit about flagger's efforts at verifying their claims.

In the first place, "art tracing" isn't a legit reason for flagging though.

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Lannihan

Hoobajoob said:

You should stop treating flags like they're a personal insult. The guy probably doesn't understand the rules of this site and that tracing isn't against the rules.

Maybe, but still it's not a "worked" draw like the original, that argument of the Trace is associated to the level of work implied there, if the artist like certain body, pose or like to imitate some styles its valid, but depend a lot of how the uploader and flagger is capable to see that level of work or not.

The rest, just keep discussing about someone who will not read this or will keep the spam of flags.

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Sacriven

Hoobajoob said:

You should stop treating flags like they're a personal insult. The guy probably doesn't understand the rules of this site and that tracing isn't against the rules.

Insult? What makes me mad that he's still flagging it despite it's clearly written on flag box about what do's and do not's for flagging reason.

Flandre5carlet said:

Ah. I wasn't sure if it was or not - so I just assumed it was and verified the claim.

Derivative work tag exist for a reason. There are lots of it on Pixiv.

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