Posted under General
The translator also suggested three amendments to the disclaimer.
Personally, I feel as if I'm in over my head.
Soljashy said:
- Add that commercial material and doujin scans are banned.
We'd be blatantly lying.
- Add that deletion requests may be writen in Japanese (since this disclaimer is aimed at them, after all).
I don't think it's necessary to mention this if the disclaimer is already in Japanese.
- Omit lines about Pixiv, because Pixiv explicitly forbids the reprinting of submissions without the artist's permission.
The vast majority of artists state something along those lines in every site or blog they have, so I don't know if mentioning pixiv makes a difference.
Also, on the issue on whether this might lead to more removal requests, I agree with everything glasnost said in forum #46982.
Soljashy said:
- Add that deletion requests may be writen in Japanese (since this disclaimer is aimed at them, after all).
This seems reasonable. It seems to me that artists will be more likely to look kindly upon us if we make their lives as easy as possible. Saying that the disclaimer can be written in Japanese doesn't hurt us, since we already intended that to be true, but it makes us look good. There's no downside here.
- Omit lines about Pixiv, because Pixiv explicitly forbids the reprinting of submissions without the artist's permission.
I'm not even really sure why the lines are there. It seems like that paragraph would convey everything it should if it read:
Whenever a picture is uploaded to Danbooru, several tags are attached describing that picture's content. [...] By clicking the '?' next to that tag, users can see the artist's name in both romaji and Japanese script, and can follow links back to the picture's original source. [...]
Soljashy said:
Fred1515 said:
We'd be blatantly lying.True. But I think he's urging us to enforce this rule.
The real issue is that it's unenforceable. Outside of exceptions where the user is especially familiar with the artist and their releases, there's often no way the mods here can know if a given image was sold commercially. Or what if it were made freely available first on a website and then collected into a book and sold? We cannot keep tabs on that kind of thing.
Now not posting chapters of official published manga is pretty easy to enforce, and we absolutely should so that (hell it's in the TOS), at the very least. Not that that stuff gets posted much.
jxh2154 said:
Now not posting chapters of official published manga is pretty easy to enforce, and we absolutely should so that (hell it's in the TOS), at the very least. Not that that stuff gets posted much.
If that's the case, we will have to remove most scanned doujins to remove possible suspicions. It is not unlikely for the Japaneses to come across series like the Horned Hermit here, for instance.
F.I.A said:
If that's the case, we will have to remove most scanned doujins to remove possible suspicions. It is not unlikely for the Japaneses to come across series like the Horned Hermit here, for instance.
I'd argue against the "have to" part. If we can exclude 95% of non-doujin commercial manga though simply doing what we've always been doing, that's a first step. Successful enforcement of that is not predicated upon utter elimination of all vaguely-manga-formatted sequential art.
I'm curious as to what our stance is on material like post #693367. It's a commercial manga in that it was published in Comp Ace, but it's also a one-shot and something I doubt we'd find published in any other form.
(continuing the discussion that started in forum #73558)
RaisingK said:
Perhaps we should stick glasnost's disclaimer in a wiki page, and then translators can hammer out a Japanese version and periodically refresh it as need be. Then at least we'd have something to point people to, if not something they'd find on their own. We've been waiting too long.Let about:disclaimer discuss the intent and proper handling of this project, with a link to forum #46430 to discuss changes. Disclaimer:English can contain the original disclaimer from which all others (disclaimer:japanese, disclaimer:korean(?)) are derived. Wiki pages let multiple people contribute and correct each other, and separate pages makes tracking changes and checking up-to-date status easier.
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Nials said:
Considering we're a foreign site to japanese, and that not all of them can read english, how can you expect them to even first go to the wiki, know what to search for, and then send an email to albert if they want their stuff removed?
I wasn't. Read my post again.
Then at least we'd have something to point people to, if not something they'd find on their own.
That is, they wouldn't be able to find it on their own, but we'd be able to pass it on to people who we find out want their works removed but haven't formally requested it yet. Like this particular case.
Fred1515 said:
Before deciding where we're going to put it we probably need to, you know, have it translated in Japanese and everything.
Exactly. We need to have something to show for ourselves before Albert can do anything.
Creating about:disclaimer and disclaimer:english is simple; I just want to know if exactly what I described is exactly the way we want to start this.
Pyrolight said:
You are likely going to have to take the bull by the horns and polish up the disclaimer yourself (or get glasnost to)[...]We would have to leave out anything related to commercial manga for the time being for fairly obvious reasons.
I don't see anything about commercial manga in the current disclaimer. If you have anything you want to change about it, bring it up in forum #46430.
Pyrolight said:
You are likely going to have to take the bull by the horns and [...] get a hold of the translators to create the Japanese and Korean versions.
If this project hasn't gotten enough visibility yet, we can stick a note about it in that news ticker thing. We just need to make somewhere for the translation to go. We have translators around here ''somewhere''.
I don't see anything about commercial manga in the current disclaimer. If you have anything you want to change about it, bring it up in forum #46430.
Was referencing some of the discussion in this thread and that addition to the disclaimer.
As to my feelings on the TOS.
1. It needs a bare minimum re-write to fit the current thinking.
2. We should stop any commercial manga uploads.
3. $#%^ing kill manga samples with fire. We really need to stop those from being uploaded.
The problem with manga samples is that they tend to be followed by manga scans. People have been uploading entire Touhou doujins like that for some time now too.
To get back to RaisingK's suggestion though, I think the wiki is a good idea. Unless there's a better way to get this started or a reason why the wiki shouldn't be used for this we should go ahead and create about:disclaimer and disclaimer:english.
Updated
I went ahead and created about:disclaimer, disclaimer:English, and disclaimer:Japanese. Gave the project a mention in http://danbooru.donmai.us/forum/show/48788?page=12, haha. Let's see what happens.
How about adding something to the disclaimer about Danbooru's ability to overlay images with translations?
Is disclaimer:Japanese being in English the plan, with using it as a link written out like [disclaimer:Japanese|<actually written in Japanese>] or should even the name be written in Japanese?
RaisingK said:
How about adding something to the disclaimer about Danbooru's ability to overlay images with translations?
"like the hell i care about that i come here to solve my problem with stolen artworks" is what you will probably get
NWF_Renim said:
Is disclaimer:Japanese being in English the plan, with using it as a link written out like [disclaimer:Japanese|<actually written in Japanese>] or should even the name be written in Japanese?
doesnt matter as it will be linked, and i dont think danbooru support unicode url
Updated
NWF_Renim said:
Is disclaimer:Japanese being in English the plan, with using it as a link written out like [disclaimer:Japanese|<actually written in Japanese>] or should even the name be written in Japanese?
Best to have it in Japanese since it is only particularly relevant to the artists themselves.
Anonymity said:
"like the hell i care about that i come here to solve my problem with stolen artworks" is what you will probably get
Digital copying and it's restrictions depend on the goodwill of both sides. If the artist adopts an "I don't give a damn" attitude, the other side might also do the same.
I don't want this situation to devolve into a stupid fight.
Anonymity said:
"like the hell i care about that i come here to solve my problem with stolen artworks" is what you will probably get
The same could be said about "users without knowledge of the Japanese language can become fans of Japanese artists". Danbooru having translation capability is just another way of making the works more accessible to foreign fans.
Pyrolight said:
Best to have it in Japanese since it is only particularly relevant to the artists themselves.
The content, maybe, but the target audience isn't going to find it except when someone else (or a notice) hands them a link directly, in which case that doesn't matter. It's more convenient for us to link if it's in English, and avoids the URL-encoding mess.
