Donmai

Bridget (GG Strive) gender

Posted under Tags

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NWF Renim

I'm inclined to say just create #transgirl and #transboy tags to cover these characters instead of putting them in the #girl and #boy tags, given how much a headache these types of characters are with tagging the #girl and #boy tags.

alfredo jones

NWF_Renim said:

I'm inclined to say just create #transgirl and #transboy tags to cover these characters instead of putting them in the #girl and #boy tags, given how much a headache these types of characters are with tagging the #girl and #boy tags.

I second this.

Damian0358

Making such tags would just be a band-aid solution to an underlying tagging problem, and that's the fact that the gender tags are used for, at minimum, three similar-yet-different ways: a) canon-tagging; b) aesthetic (masculine/feminine/androgynous, and in-betweens for each, like effeminate); and c) genital (penis/vagina/both/neither). This is, obviously, without accounting its purpose of numbering how many of a given person there is in the image.

These three ways have, for all intents and purposes, always been at odds at one another. B and C are what 'tag-what-you-see' concerns themselves with, and A's 'tag-what-you-know' nature steps in to seal the deal, because what people want out of the gender tags is an easy and simple way to search for heterosexual characters, especially traditionally female ones. As a result, we have to make additional tags to compensate for the weaknesses this system leaves us with, especially when it comes to anything that deviates from the status quo, even aesthetically - otoko no ko for those who want effeminate men, futanari and co. for those who want penises on traditionally female bodies, etc. And often, these sorts of tags necessitate 'tag-what-you-know' knowledge, because otherwise effeminate men would be tagged as girls.

We're stuck with the system we currently have though, because putting in place a new one that's more flexible would not just take immense effort, it would also likely make it harder to search for it simply: "If I can't search for a female character that I am 100% certain does not have a penis, what's the point?!" Especially keeping in mind the two-tag search limit for most, it would be an immensely tough sell.

If a decision has to be made, just take the middle ground position of tagging Strive Bridget as *girl, and keeping all previous posts as *boy. If a penis is clearly visible, follow precedent set on other trans characters.

MegaFlare

Damian0358 said:
If a decision has to be made, just take the middle ground position of tagging Strive Bridget as *girl, and keeping all previous posts as *boy. If a penis is clearly visible, follow precedent set on other trans characters.

Was thinking this would be the way to go.

feline lump

I don't think we should fully shelve the idea to make transgender characters taggable and searchable (something we've been lacking for a long time) just because some people will have to take one minute out of their day to update their blacklist. In some cases, letting them know that a girl is trans on worksafe pics would be doing them a favor.

Damian0358

feline_lump said:

I don't think we should fully shelve the idea to make transgender characters taggable and searchable (something we've been lacking for a long time) just because some people will have to take one minute out of their day to update their blacklist. In some cases, letting them know that a girl is trans on worksafe pics would be doing them a favor.

I don't disagree with you, but we already tried to do that with transgender though (first suggested in topic #17489). Then the use of that tag got changed after the last major discussion on it last year (you can see that in the post history of characters like Grell Sutcliff).

It also doesn't resolve the issue of tagging wars over characters people argue over being trans or not, ala Yamato.

Updated

testingmmmmm

NWF_Renim said:

I'm inclined to say just create #transgirl and #transboy tags to cover these characters instead of putting them in the #girl and #boy tags, given how much a headache these types of characters are with tagging the #girl and #boy tags.

This adds waaaaay too much complexity. You not only segregate trans characters from regular searches you are adding two brand new gender counts, which implies we have to account for them for every other gardening search.

If otherwise we do imply #transgirl to #girl we are back where we started.
EDIT: remembered we can't imply them because we haven't developed arithmetic implications yet

testingmmmmm

BUR #11639 has been rejected.

mass update guilty_gear_strive ai:1girl -ai:1boy bridget_(guilty_gear) 1boy solo -penis -bulge -> 1girl -1boy

Family friendly easy solution

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feline lump

Damian0358 said:

I don't disagree with you, but we already tried to do that with transgender though (first suggested in topic #17489). Then the use of that tag got changed after the last major discussion on it last year (you can see that in the post history of characters like Grell Sutcliff).

We'll probably have to rework that tag again either way. Since we last discussed it, people have been uniformly ignoring the wiki and once again adding it to any transgender character. I see valid use cases for both definitions of the tag, personally.

It also doesn't resolve the issue of tagging wars over characters people argue over being trans or not, ala Yamato.

It doesn't, but I don't see it worsening it either. I think that's ultimately going to be a moderation issue.

And yeah, agreed that the update should only include Bridget's Strive design.

testingmmmmm

updated due to popular demand and to be as conservative as possible with this change.

In reality I don't think the date of announcement should matter as far danbooru goes. The only reason we are considering this is because the planets have aligned and now her canon gender matches her character design.

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