The Great Fate Character Retagging Project

The release of fate/grand order resulted in the massive expansion of the fate_(series) community. Many of the fans who are spearheading the popularity gain were introduced to the nasuverse through the phone game. And through the phone game, these new fans have branched out towards the other installments in the franchise acknowledging that they already know who the servants are. This is the reason why fate/apocrypha has a larger viewing audience than fate/zero or fate/stay night even though it's generally considered the worst out of the three.

At this point in time, the notion of using only class names as tags is causing confusion for the database. The original purpose of using class names instead of true names is rendered pointless, sometimes not even because of Grand Order. In stay night, we are instantly told who assassin, lancer, berserker, and true assassin are. In Zero, we are instantly told the identities of every servant except for Berserker. In Extella, we know who every servant is as it spoils the true names for every servant in EXTRA, stay night, Zero, and Apocrypha. Every subsequent installment in this franchise has the expectation that the audience already knows any previous installment's servants' true names and the stories they were involved in. Yes, the creators' treatment of the audience may not be something that you like, but it is what is happening. Spoilers—specifically those related to true names—don't matter anymore and, in some cases, have never mattered.

Also, the idea that danbooru protects spoilers at all costs is rather silly. For instance: "I am your father" from star wars. post #2252943 and post #2761941 both feature the most spoilerific moment in that franchise's history, but neither post has the spoiler tag on it. Looking up star_wars spoilers will give you posts related to star wars: the force awakens and rogue one: a star wars story; there are actually a few images which I'm rather confused about why they were tagged with spoilers, but whatever I guess. On a similar note, pool #11684, due to its very nature is filled with spoilers about the fate (series), but none of these posts have that tag.

I think it's time to just have the tags as servant_name_(class)_(fate). Tags like demon archer, sakura saber, saber alter, lancer_(fate/whatever) are only causing confusion at this point. In Grand Order, Nasu has redefined what the purpose of the Grail system is, effectively abandoning an old archaic system that wouldn't serve their story right, and it's about time we do the same. We should have something along the lines of artoria pendragon santa alter (rider) (fate).

I'd go with artoria_pendragon_(santa_alter)_(fate), to mirror artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_rider_alter)_(fate).

The class is not necessary for Santa because it's unlikely it'd invite accidental misuse the way the swimsuit servants do.
(To elaborate, the class was put there to hint that the tag refers to up to three specific official designs, not just any swimsuited rendition of the character. Santa Alter is very unlikely to invite such a mistake)

The tags are already pretty long, so I try to avoid unnecessary terms.

KyteM said:

I'd go with artoria_pendragon_(santa_alter)_(fate), to mirror artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_rider_alter)_(fate).

The class is not necessary for Santa because it's unlikely it'd invite accidental misuse the way the swimsuit servants do.
(To elaborate, the class was put there to hint that the tag refers to up to three specific official designs, not just any swimsuited rendition of the character. Santa Alter is very unlikely to invite such a mistake)

The tags are already pretty long, so I try to avoid unnecessary terms.

Why not artoria_pendragon_(maid_alter)_(fate) ?

It's better to keep saber_alter and artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_rider_alter)_(fate) separated. Otherwise, I would suggest removing the tag artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_rider_alter)_(fate) because it's the same as saber_alter.

Fremy said:

Why not artoria_pendragon_(maid_alter)_(fate) ?

'cause she's not wearing a maid outfit in two of three forms and in the one where she is it's still a bikini/maid hybrid thing.

mj1234 said:

It's better to keep saber_alter and artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_rider_alter)_(fate) separated. Otherwise, I would suggest removing the tag artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_rider_alter)_(fate) because it's the same as saber_alter.

I don't think anybody said anything about combining the two? It'd make no sense to do so, in first place.

Problem is, she's called Maid Alter in the game.

ckretaznman said:

I think it's time to just have the tags as servant_name_(class)_(fate). Tags like demon archer, sakura saber, saber alter, lancer_(fate/whatever) are only causing confusion at this point. [...] We should have something along the lines of artoria pendragon santa alter (rider) (fate).

I think the saber_alter tag should continue to be saber_alter because no other Servant is called Saber Alter anywhere in the franchise.

And I might be wrong, but isn't Santa Alter an official character name?

WakuWaku said:

I don't know about giving JK Tamamo her own tag when she's only a separate character in a single gag scene that's never mentioned again. The outfit she's wearing is just the equip-able JK costume you get in game.

Mysterious Heroine X is also a costume in the game.

mj1234 said:

Oh it got resolved now. Out of curiosity, should "deleted" pictures also be re-tagged?

https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2647940?tags=saber_alter
https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2555989?tags=saber_alter

Yes. People would run into them if they looked up saber status:deleted otherwise.

Speaking of which, I already removed the saber tag from all Lancer Artoria and Lancer Altoria Alter images I could, but there are some images that need a Gold account to be seen. Can some Gold or above user do this for me? Also, it seems that some Mysterious Heroine X and MHX Alter images also need a Gold account.

G-SANtos said:

Problem is, she's called Maid Alter in the game.

I think the saber_alter tag should continue to be saber_alter because no other Servant is called Saber Alter anywhere in the franchise.

And I might be wrong, but isn't Santa Alter an official character name?

But saber_alter is referred to as Artoria Pendragon Alter in the game, so under your logic shouldn't we tag her as such? There are also other characters who are Artoria Alters that are not specifically of the Saber class who are referred to with their full names. Keeping saber_alter, demon_archer, etc. while having tags for cu_chulainn_alter_(fate/grand_order), emiya_alter, artoria_pendragon_(lancer_alter), and other true names creates a lot of inconsistencies and confusion.

And I am putting my support behind artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_rider_alter)_(fate) because it tells us exactly who the character is, what her primary attire is, the class she is designated, and it shows her having consistency with the other summer swimsuit servants. This is a reminder that this is the second Artoria Pendragon Alter who is a Rider, so that differentiation should be there to get rid of any confusion… Actually I wouldn't mind changing artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_rider_alter)_(fate) to artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_rider_alter) because the (fate) part is unnecessary to avoid confusion.

In many the _(fate) bit is unneeded but helps when doing wildcard searches. Also I like it when everyone follows the same pattern, but that's just me.

G-SANtos said:

Problem is, she's called Maid Alter in the game.

I think the saber_alter tag should continue to be saber_alter because no other Servant is called Saber Alter anywhere in the franchise.

And I might be wrong, but isn't Santa Alter an official character name?

That's the short name, which I'm fairly sure can change depending on the form.
The official card name is アルトリア・ペンドラゴン (オルタ). (Artoria Pendragon (Alter)) [1]
People usually tack a (Rider) or (Swimsuit) somewhere for differentiation, 'cause regular Alter has the same card name.

Santa is アルトリア・ペンドラゴン (サンタオルタ) (Artoria Pendragon (Santa Alter))) [1]
She adopts the title of Santa or something.

Speaking of which, I already removed the saber tag from all Lancer Artoria and Lancer Altoria Alter images I could, but there are some images that need a Gold account to be seen. Can some Gold or above user do this for me? Also, it seems that some Mysterious Heroine X and MHX Alter images also need a Gold account.

k done. Also the deleted ones and MHX/MHXA. Tell me if I missed something.

Why artoria pendragon (swimsuit archer) doesn't imply artoria pendragon (all)? She implies saber though, so in the end her pictures will still be tagged with artoria pendragon (all). Also artoria pendragon (swimsuit rider alter) (fate) isn't implying anything.

Also, I'm not asking for a direct implication of Swimsuit Archer and Santa Alter to artoria_pendragon_(all) because I'm not sure if there's evidence of them being considered separate characters. I could be wrong though, and someone who knows more than me could bring up something I didn't know. At any rate, they being separate or not is a different discussion, and it's very easy to search "artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_archer) -saber" and "santa_alter -saber_alter" since those don't break any search limits.

Then I saw this forum post here, does this still stand? Are we still unsure if artoria pendragon (swimsuit archer) is a separate character?

Also, only she do not have the _(fate) qualifier, despite all other swimsuit servants having one. Or should the _(fate) qualifier be removed in all of them?

紫希貴 said:

Why artoria pendragon (swimsuit archer) doesn't imply artoria pendragon (all)? She implies saber though, so in the end her pictures will still be tagged with artoria pendragon (all).

You've answered your own question.

I could swear Swimsuit Archer had the _(fate) suffix when I made the tag...

Anyways, the swimsuit characters are just the originals in swimsuits, they don't even get a name change in their card. (See swimsuit Alter above)
IMO they should imply their normal versions. Swimsuit Alter doesn't have an implication because nobody requested it or that particular request hasn't gone through. I think it got delayed 'cause of the implication reorganization.

KyteM said:

I could swear Swimsuit Archer had the _(fate) suffix when I made the tag...

Anyways, the swimsuit characters are just the originals in swimsuits, they don't even get a name change in their card. (See swimsuit Alter above)
IMO they should imply their normal versions. Swimsuit Alter doesn't have an implication because nobody requested it or that particular request hasn't gone through. I think it got delayed 'cause of the implication reorganization.

Are the character_swimsuit tags even neccessary?
Like you said, they don't get a name change in their cards, so they are still the same character.
To me, this all looks like a big cluster of character tags, but it could also be solved with gen tags. That way, less character tags are there and a smaller chance to mess up the tagging.
I mean...KanColle characters also do get new skins for new events and they don't receive a new char tag each time. How is this different here?

Chiera said:

Are the character_swimsuit tags even neccessary?
Like you said, they don't get a name change in their cards, so they are still the same character.
To me, this all looks like a big cluster of character tags, but it could also be solved with gen tags. That way, less character tags are there and a smaller chance to mess up the tagging.
I mean...KanColle characters also do get new skins for new events and they don't receive a new char tag each time. How is this different here?

Check the numbers:
Tamamo: 495
Nero: 354 (In less than a month!) (Now I wanna see tag growth statistics...)
Scach: 345
Mordred: 169
Kiyo: 145
Alter: 143
Nito: 138
Martha: 112
Seiba: 99
Fran: 74
Raikou: 62
Nobu: 50

I don't think any Kancolle character has had nearly as much artwork done for their seasonals, so they never warranted a tag, but they did get the remodel_(kantai_collection) to differentiate appearances.

A gen tag would be ok, I suppose, but the tag deffo has to be there given the volume of posts. And if it's there it makes sense to make it a chartag to keep them visually close because frankly otherwise everyone forgets to look at the gentags for this stuff. dangerous_beast had that problem.

As an aside, Touhou gets those cookie characters tagged even though they're, say, Reimu with tits or such with the differentiation being entirely on non-apparent knowledge, and the tag volume is like half of the swimsuit girls.

KyteM said:

In many the _(fate) bit is unneeded but helps when doing wildcard searches. Also I like it when everyone follows the same pattern, but that's just me.

Yeah, I was assuming that was the case. I didn't have a strong opinion for either way.

Chiera said:

Are the character_swimsuit tags even neccessary?
Like you said, they don't get a name change in their cards, so they are still the same character.
To me, this all looks like a big cluster of character tags, but it could also be solved with gen tags. That way, less character tags are there and a smaller chance to mess up the tagging.
I mean...KanColle characters also do get new skins for new events and they don't receive a new char tag each time. How is this different here?

Well, I guess the difference is that the swimsuits imply different things for those games. In fate/grand order it implies a new servant with a different class and abilities, whereas in kantai collection it's really just the normal ships that are in the mood to wear a different costume resulting in no difference in gameplay/story changes.

I see. Thanks for the clarifications.

What happened to the request to split the alternative forms of Jeanne and other characters?

Guys, can you not tag Medb in warden uniform as military_uniform? Or, i dunno, read pixiv tags(メイヴ監獄長)?
As far as i know wardens are not part of military... in my country, at least.

Looks like Charlemagne from Extella Link is being tagged as saber_(fate/extella_link)? It seems completely unnecessary to hide his name.

Seems like habit at this point. A habit we should probably start breaking since it's obsolete.

So yes, let's change the saber, demon_archer, and sakura_saber tags into true names.