mj1234 said:
Example u-511_(kantai_collection) should be included with ro-500_(kantai_collection)
etc
We already tried that. It didn't work out.
Posted under Tags
mj1234 said:
Example u-511_(kantai_collection) should be included with ro-500_(kantai_collection)
etc
We already tried that. It didn't work out.
Just saying, I don't think an artoria_pendragon tag should have a _(fate) parser since that's not exactly a public domain name. If we start using the true names, the original Saber should just be artoria_pendragon.
- Illya, Rin and Luvia have tags for their magical girl forms, but Miyu doesn't. Create one. (miyu_edelfelt_(magical_girl) for parity, I suppose).
That's because Miyu's magical girl form doesn't have a name, unlike everyone else.
- On a similar vein as the parent point, since Nero got tags for her Bride and Venus forms, Tamamo's tophatted CCC version should be tagged. Perhaps the JK version too, Saber Venus only has 7 posts last I counted.
The problem is that Tamamo's tophatted version doesn't have its own name, nor is considered a separate character anywhere, unlike Nero Bride, which is a separate Servant in FGO.
remove implication saber_alter -> saber
remove implication saber_lily -> saber
remove implication heroine_x -> saber
remove implication heroine_x_(alter) -> heroine_x
remove implication heroine_z -> heroine_x
remove implication artoria_pendragon_alter_(fate/grand_order) -> saber_alter
remove implication artoria_pendragon_lancer_(fate/grand_order) -> saber
create alias heroine_x -> mysterious_heroine_x
create alias heroine_x_(alter) -> mysterious_heroine_x_(alter)
create alias heroine_z -> ultra_heroine_z
mass update artoria_pendragon_lancer_(fate/grand_order) -> artoria_pendragon_(lancer)
mass update artoria_pendragon_alter_(fate/grand_order) -> artoria_pendragon_(lancer_alter)
remove implication artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate) -> saber
mass update artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate)_(cosplay) -> artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_archer)_(cosplay)
mass update artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate) -> artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_archer)
create implication artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_archer) -> saber
create implication saber -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication saber_lily -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication saber_alter -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication artoria_pendragon_(lancer) -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication artoria_pendragon_(lancer_alter) -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication mysterious_heroine_x -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication mysterious_heroine_x_(alter) -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication ultra_heroine_z -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication master_artoria -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication saber_lion -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
Follow up based on my suggestion of aliasing all Servant variants to "[name]_(all)", this way, all versions of Saber are aliased to the same parent tag, without a search for the base character causing all the variants to come up as well. For example, if you search for Saber here, you won't get pictures of a lone Saber Alter or Mysterious Heroine X Alter. At the same, you have a tag that allows you to search for all variants of her, that being artoria_pendragon_(all), which does not refer to any one specific Artoria.
As for why it's not artoria_pendragon_(fate)_(all), that's because, unlike Arthur Pendragon or Artorius Pendragon, Artoria Pendragon is not a public domain name, so she shouldn't get a (fate) unless some other piece of fiction also has a character named Artoria Pendragon. Most other Servants though, don't have original names.
That's also why I'm asking for the removal of the (fate) parser from the Lancer, Alter Lancer, and Swimsuit Archer form.
About Heroines X and Z, "Mysterious" and "Ultra" are part of their names. However, I think those should be aliased because of how often Japanese fans omit the first word, and that some taggers may know them better by these names.
I'm still using "saber" for the tag, so the discussion on whether to switch to true names can be kept for later, and I didn't to make an unilateral decision with this request. And anyway, most of the variant Servants are variants for characters that are referred to by their classes. I think we should focus on solving the multi-implication mess before discussing the tag names.
Also, I'm not asking for a direct implication of Swimsuit Archer and Santa Alter to artoria_pendragon_(all) because I'm not sure if there's evidence of them being considered separate characters. I could be wrong though, and someone who knows more than me could bring up something I didn't know. At any rate, they being separate or not is a different discussion, and it's very easy to search "artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_archer) -saber" and "santa_alter -saber_alter" since those don't break any search limits.
We can also discuss "saber_alter_(all)" and "mysterious_heroine_x_(all)" tags later if someone feels like it, but honestly, I don't think we need those.
If this request is accepted, I'll start requests for the other ones, unless someone else does so first.
The bulk update request #1237 has been approved.
Updated by DanbooruBot
A combination of G-SANtos and KyteM's requests would be perfect. Especially this part, for every other character with different forms/outfits.
create implication saber -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication saber_lily -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication saber_alter -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication artoria_pendragon_(lancer) -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication artoria_pendragon_(lancer_alter) -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication mysterious_heroine_x -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication mysterious_heroine_x_(alter) -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication ultra_heroine_z -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication master_artoria -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
create implication saber_lion -> artoria_pendragon_(all)
Updated my bulk request because while I requested a mass update for Artoria Swimsuit Archer, I forgot to request the update for the implications to Saber.
WatcherCCG said:
Seconding MJ's idea, there.
You mean my idea? Just to be sure, are you talking about the "[name]_(all)" idea or something else I'm not catching?
Updated
G-SANtos said:
Updated my bulk request because while I requested a mass update for Artoria Swimsuit Archer, I forgot to request the update for the implications to Saber.
You mean my idea? Just to be sure, are you talking the "[name]_(all)" idea or something else I'm not catching?
Yes. If people want to find all forms of, let's say, Tohsaka, they could search for toosaka_rin_(all) which would include ishtar_(fate/grand_order) and ereshkigal_(fate/grand_order).
mj1234 said:
Yes. If people want to find all forms of, let's say, Tohsaka, they could search for toosaka_rin_(all) which would include ishtar_(fate/grand_order) and ereshkigal_(fate/grand_order).
I'm not sure if you understood my question.
But anyway, I just read some posts in the first page that I didn't read before, and I realized I'm not the first one to come up with [name]_(all), KyteM thought it first. So, we had the same idea, I'm just the first one to actually make a request based on it.
Life has been unkind to my free time and more importantly nobody ever seems to reply so we end up with endless waiting between posts.
Griping aside, I wanted to give everybody the same suffix for the sake of wildcards, but if you add umbrella tags the point is moot. I don't mind your proposal, right now I just want enough people to actually reply/upvote so this can move forward. Your solution should do just fine.
The tag alias heroine_z -> ultra_heroine_z (alias #14776) has conflicting wiki pages. ultra_heroine_z should be updated to include information from heroine_z if necessary.
The bulk update request #1237 has been approved.
The tag alias heroine_z -> ultra_heroine_z (alias #14776) has conflicting wiki pages. ultra_heroine_z should be updated to include information from heroine_z if necessary.
Sigh, why am I always late with such discussions. Just few hours ago I wanted to say that I disagree with latest request (forum #133936) and would support suggestions/corrections voiced by NWF Renim in forum #132967. But I thought I would finish some other stuff first, and now I see it already processed.
saber_lily and saber_alter should still imply saber. Same for other alter versions and their original characters.
And if we are going to have a catch all tag for all Saber variations, then _(fate) is obviously a better qualifier than _(all). We don't need to worry about public domain or any such stuff, tags should be descriptive and unambiguous and this tag is for Saber/Artoria variations from the fate_(series).
On a related note, currently we have
artoria_pendragon_(lancer)
artoria_pendragon_(lancer_alter)
artoria_pendragon_lancer_(fate/grand_order)
artoria_pendragon_alter_(fate/grand_order)
I'm not too familiar with Fate/Grand Order, but it looks like two of these are duplicate tags.
MyrMindservant said:
saber_lily and saber_alter should still imply saber. Same for other alter versions and their original characters.
What would your suggestion be if somebody wanted to, let's say, look at Saber without wanting to see Saber_Alter in solo pictures without filtering the latter?
mj1234 said:
What would your suggestion be if somebody wanted to, let's say, look at Saber without wanting to see Saber_Alter in solo pictures without filtering the latter?
Not sure why do you focus on solo pictures, simply excluding saber_alter works perfectly fine for them.
I know that this implication adds some false positives to the search results if you only want to see base saber, but it also makes tagging easier and more consistent.
We do implicate variations to the main character, as long as it is the same character.
Fate series examples:
dark_sakura -> matou_sakura
saber_bride, saber_venus -> saber_extra
And some examples from other copyrights:
verniy_(kantai_collection) -> hibiki_(kantai_collection)
awakened_miki -> hoshii_miki
hakurei_reimu_(pc-98) -> hakurei_reimu
hatsune_miku_(append), yuki_miku, sakura miku -> hatsune_miku
Also see discussion about saber_alter at previous pages of this topic.
On another note, additional reason to use artoria_pendragon_(fate), rather than artoria_pendragon_(all), is that we already use _(fate) as a qualifier for many other fate_(series) characters. You can see this by making *(fate) character tag search.
MyrMindservant said:
Not sure why do you focus on solo pictures, simply excluding saber_alter works perfectly fine for them.
Yes, it is easier to tag characters if you add them to one character tag but is it any better? No, the mess only gets worse.
matou_sakura should not be lumped with dark_sakura.
Same goes for the other characters you mentioned.
saber_bride =/= saber_venus =/= saber_extra
verniy_(kantai_collection) =/= hibiki_(kantai_collection)
awakened_miki =/= hoshii_miki
hakurei_reimu_(pc-98) =/= hakurei_reimu
hatsune_miku_(append) =/= yuki_miku =/= sakura miku =/= hatsune_miku
NWF_Renim said:
The Saber tag will still require massive sorting and cleanup with this approval.
Is there a chance for ereshkigal_(fate/grand_order) and ishtar_(fate/grand_order) to not be lumped with toosaka_rin? As well with other Fate characters in a similar mess? :V
MyrMindservant said:
Not sure why do you focus on solo pictures, simply excluding saber_alter works perfectly fine for them.
I think they means they want, for example, to be able to search "saber 1girl" and see ONLY the main Saber. Of course, excluding the other tags in the search works, if you have an upgraded account, but look at how many tags implicate artoria_pendragon_(all), it's 10. There's already 10 Saber variations here, plus Galactica Saber, which currently does not have pictures here, but it's only a matter of time until she does. That also does include not Swimsuit Artoria and Santa Alter, that are implicated to the main Artoria and Saber Alter, and the upcoming Swimsuit Artoria Alter.
And considering there's a Lancer Artoria (two actually) because of Rhongomyniad, it's only a matter of time before we get an Assassin Artoria for Carnwennan. My point is, there's already a ton of Sabers, and they will keep doing more because Takeuchi likes drawing new Sabers. We'll eventually get to a point that, if we were using the old implication system, not even Platinum users would be able to search for Saber pictures that don't contain alternate Artorias.
In fact, per the old system, to get lone pictures of the main Saber and not see any other variation, even the Swimsuit version, you would have to search
"saber 1girl -saber_alter -saber_lily -mysterious_heroine_x -artoria_pendragon_(lancer) -artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_archer) -master_aroria"
which already has 8 tags. Only Platinum users would be able to do this, and we five more Saber versions away of NO ONE being able to do this, and it's only a matter of time until someone uploads a picture of Galactica Saber, or Zero Saber, King Saber, and even aid Saber start being treated as distinct characters (which Zero and King already are in Capsule Servant).
Long story short, the Fate series does things in a way that would eventually break the character version implication system, and Saber is just this close to trouble even Platinum users.
MyrMindservant said:
We do implicate variations to the main character, as long as it is the same character.
The problem is the definition of "alternate character". Saber Lion is a separate character even in Fate/tiger colosseum, which I assume is why she was never aliased to saber (either that, or people forgot about her). However, other separate forms that start as the same character eventually become treated as different characters. Examples being Saber Alter and Saber Lily, which, notably, even have the difference in the character being the subject of an entire interview, and, in fact, even Saber Bride treated as a distinct character in FGO.
The Fate series does things in such a way, that Danbooru's traditional system doesn't work well for them. I even described above how dangerously close Saber was to be be impossible to search 1girl pictures even if you're Platinum.
mj1234 said:
Yes, it is easier to tag characters if you add them to one character tag but is it any better? No, the mess only gets worse.
matou_sakura should not be lumped with dark_sakura.
Same goes for the other characters you mentioned.
saber_bride =/= saber_venus =/= saber_extra
I'm not sure if I completely agree with this. I don't know much about the other copyrights you listed, but these characters are just a separate form of the character. Like, you can argue that Saber Bride is a different character in FGO, but Saber Venus is literally just a super mode of Saber Extra.
However, when I started writing this part of my post I was under the impression we tended to alias superhero/magical girl alter egos for other franchises (cure_black -> misumi_nagisa, sailor_moon -> tsukino_usagi, ultimate_madoka -> kaname_madoka), but after checking the examples I just listed, that's not the case. Were these unaliased, or am I just having a Mandela Effect here? Anyway, I might be just being biased towards what I assumed was standard procedure.
Not for everything.
black_heart = noire
ro-500_(kantai_collection) = u-511_(kantai_collection)
etc