Posted under General
Fred1515 said:
E.g. there are posts under everyone that have close to a hundred tags, but might still have important tags missing, and there are posts under minimalism where 4 or 5 tags is the absolute maximum.
I should think there hasn't ever been a scramble to upload minimalist pictures at any point in DB's history, and will continue to be so in the future.
Environmental art is even more niche than male-only and yaoi.
Mikaeri said:
they could just code a bot/script to monitor trusted artists' Twitter/pixiv accounts and upload posts literally the very same minute they do, and padding the tags only after such and such human user gets back and tags it properly.
Why doesn't Danbooru make a similar bot? The community can vote for the artists they feel are good enough to be put on the list of trusted artists to be uploaded by the bot. The rest of the contributors can focus on finding new good artists instead of working their contribution numbers by sniping each other off the popular ones. It will also save so much time for everyone. Although tagging would still be a communal responsibility and probably makes no one feel obliged to tag because it's not their uploads.
I don't really know the number of users of this site, but I think that hiding the uploader username from anonymous/members users would stop the ones that just want their name next to the image.
Enforcing one copyright and one artist tag should be the default for uploading, and a minimum number of general tags could be enforced too, around 10 should be enough.
Searching for -status:deleted returns 2,547,707 posts, and filtering the posts with 10 or less general tags returns about 87.5% posts.
hazknight said:
Enforcing one copyright and one artist tag should be the default for uploading, and a minimum number of general tags could be enforced too, around 10 should be enough.
Searching for -status:deleted returns 2,547,707 posts, and filtering the posts with 10 or less general tags returns about 87.5% posts.
There are images where 10 tags is impossible without adding tags that don't want to be on the image or inventing tags just as filler.
And what about if you don't know the copyright/artist?
Putting these sorts of restrictions in would only encourage (or even force) deliberate mistagging, and give people an excuse for it as well. And mistagging is worse than undertagging.
^ The copyright and artist is trivial to add sometimes -- it's important, but it's not difficult to find when a proper source is provided. And of course, we do have the copyright request, artist request, and character request metatags.
The main concern here is with gentags which compromise the vast majority of tags on this site.
Provence. said:
Even "trusted" artists can mess up sometimes. It's better when a user sees the post, so that they think it is worth getting uploaded. That was also a reason even 5 years ago and it still stands.
So? Users like matsunaga_kouyou and n.g. mess up so infrequently that it is literally almost always safe to upload from them. Consider that some of these users are fine with a few rotten eggs in their record, that won't stop them from undermining the system -- especially if they're a member-level user. RomanticTP does have a point, and for the most popular artists, there is certainly some sentiment/feeling that uploader names are pointless and should truly be pointless.
CodeKyuubi said:
I should think there hasn't ever been a scramble to upload minimalist pictures at any point in DB's history, and will continue to be so in the future.
Environmental art is even more niche than male-only and yaoi.
And that's fine -- the limitation would be there to prevent posts that would otherwise be poorly tagged when they shouldn't be in a sufficient time. Scenery and minimalist art is fine if it takes a slower amount of time -- there is not really any rush to upload those kinds of images since not many uploaders are interested in them.
Mikaeri said:
^ The copyright and artist is trivial to add sometimes -- it's important, but it's not difficult to find when a proper source is provided. And of course, we do have the copyright request, artist request, and character request metatags.
That post was replying to one saying that copyright and artist should be enforced to be added on all posts. Or are you suggesting that copyright request be turned into an copyright tag?
kuuderes_shadow said:
That post was replying to one saying that copyright and artist should be enforced to be added on all posts. Or are you suggesting that copyright request be turned into an copyright tag?
Maybe. The caveat with making copyright and artist enforced on all posts is that then when you don't know which copyright or artist it came from (say, you're uploading matome when the artist hasn't tagged all the copyrights, or if you're uploading wallpapers from an official site and don't know how to read the Japanese names), it makes more trouble than necessary to upload those sorts of posts.
Maybe copyright request shouldn't be turned into a copyright tag, but instead just be considered if such limitations were enforced. I'm of the opinion that everything in copytags:0 deserves copyright_request, since we do have an original tag.
Type-kun said:
if you try to upload the image and somebody already did, the tags you've entered are supposed to get merged into the existing post under your name, as if you found it and edited the tags in. I'm not sure if it's the case now
Darn. That was a great feature.
It would also merge the source field if there wasn't any source yet.
If uploader usernames are not important then why bother about upload sniping at all? I still see no problem other than shortage of e-points. If it's about not caring about own uploads, it's a whole other problem that's not strictly related to upload sniping - bad tagging happens on leisure uploads, too - and is solved by writing appropriate reports and neutral/negative record warnings, not by automatically uploading everything and then deleting accidental crap.
parasol said:
Darn. That was a great feature.
It would also merge the source field if there wasn't any source yet.
Maybe we should just bring it back then? I think it'll be much easier than upload reservation.
Provence. said:
I'd give a +1 for bringing this feature back(?). But when you talk about bringing it back, then what was the reason it got purged in the past?
Dug up some history. See topic #9999 and issue #2027; basically, auto-merging can be problematic in certain cases such as wrong source (or the dreaded MD5 collision for that matter, though it's extremely rare). Maybe the merging should be a conscious action rather than automatic. E.g. show the page saying "this post was already uploaded (thumbnail, link to post). Merge the tags?" instead of throwing the exception.
qazmlpok said in topic #9999:
Ideally, it would even list out which tags would be added.
This would help with the issue of character_request being merged into posts where the successful uploader had already tagged characters, especially if it also showed the current tags color-coded, and you could deselect individual tags-to-merge if you noticed something wrong them after seeing what the uploader had tagged.
Provence. said:
About merging posts: Wouldn't this create a pretty long list with "underused tags"? You get sometimes a DM from the DanbooruBot talling you what other users have added. Wouldn't that clash with merging tags..?
I don't think it matters. That's the price an uploader has to pay for under-tagging to upload, whether merging is automated or not.
Edit: One thing I do notice with undertaggers is that, in their haste to upload and move on, they often leave tag errors (Wrong colors, tagging what isn't explicitly present (implied presence) or completely not present) and miss common Level-1 tags that don't fall under the category of excessive (Like bow and ribbon colors. In what world does someone correctly find an image by searching for a ribbon color, much less remember what color ribbon an image had?).
Updated
Kikimaru said:
"Post sniping" isn't a problem.
We didn't create the art, we're just here to make it easier to find.
Add your own tags & move on.
Honestly, this is my own view on the matter, too. If you don't want to be upload sniped, then don't upload things within the first few minutes of them being posted, and suddenly you'll find that your uploads don't get sniped. I've never been sniped on any of my uploads. Sure, you'll get fewer uploads but so what?
And with regards to tagging, so long as they tag it up straight away (in which case within 5 minutes of upload the image should be decently tagged) then I don't see the problem.
Oh, and @CodeKyuubi - again, a tag that I've used in searching, for finding images of characters with different ribbon colours to usual like post #1517023. In the absence of an alternate ribbon color tag, they're the best option.
CodeKyuubi said:
I don't think it matters. That's the price an uploader has to pay for under-tagging to upload, whether merging is automated or not.
Edit: One thing I do notice with undertaggers is that, in their haste to upload and move on, they often leave tag errors (Wrong colors, tagging what isn't explicitly present (implied presence) or completely not present) and miss common Level-1 tags that don't fall under the category of excessive (Like bow and ribbon colors. In what world does someone correctly find an image by searching for a ribbon color, much less remember what color ribbon an image had?).
Embarrassingly so. Misusing tags and having them be corrected by others when they move on without lack of care on a semi-regular basis is a little disdainful to me.
Kikimaru said:
"Post sniping" isn't a problem.
We didn't create the art, we're just here to make it easier to find.
Add your own tags & move on.
kuuderes_shadow said:
Honestly, this is my own view on the matter, too. If you don't want to be upload sniped, then don't upload things within the first few minutes of them being posted, and suddenly you'll find that your uploads don't get sniped. I've never been sniped on any of my uploads. Sure, you'll get fewer uploads but so what?
And with regards to tagging, so long as they tag it up straight away (in which case within 5 minutes of upload the image should be decently tagged) then I don't see the problem.
Just because you guys don't see a problem posited doesn't mean it doesn't cease to exist at all. That's about as dumb as reading the news and going "Oh Indonesia is at risk of rising sea levels? That's fake news, climate change doesn't exist because it's good weather outside." Anecdotal evidence provides practically nothing to the table.
We don't make the art, but we are 'responsible' for curating it. And the current system makes that matter just as much. If it doesn't actually matter, then why don't we just let everyone up 'the best' art through the queue regardless of whether they tag it well or not? Clearly they'll 'eventually' get around to it in the 2 hours as Type-kun mentions they will. In fact, let me make it a personal project to write a script that automatically uploads everything from kekemotsu, komeshiro_kasu, and machimura_komori among other saved artists I have, so that if it really isn't a problem just as long as I tag them within 2 hours then I'll just make coffee during rush hour and let my machine do all the work during the time folks will be hitting f5 on their keyboard manually.
Users with unlimited uploads will bend the rules as much to their liking as they will. Post sniping isn't a direct cause of undertagging, but there is definitely a correlation. You can't just say it doesn't exist when clearly it affects the system. Would you consider promoting this user now considering his habit for nabbing works as fast as he does? If so, you shouldn't have a problem with my idea. After all, I'm basically automating his job.
Oh, and @CodeKyuubi - again, a tag that I've used in searching, for finding images of characters with different ribbon colours to usual like post #1517023. In the absence of an alternate ribbon color tag, they're the best option.
You're beautifully missing the point. He's addressing why someone would tag incredibly specific tag details on a post while missing the most obvious and intuitively searchable ones. I had to spend close to 40 minutes to find post #1444494 with alternate tags because some of the most basic ones weren't tagged.
That happening every so once in a while is fine. Take what you get. But having it be habitual (as mentioned above) is pretty detrimental to our goal as a site that makes it easy to find these works.
I've held off on commenting on this thread so as to let others contribute discussion, but those comments needed a firm rebuke. Because it's as if you skipped reading the thread and the comments others have made about it.
EDIT: One more thing, if you upload from artists that don't regularly have their uploads closely monitored, that's great. Continue what you are doing, but you'll know the feeling once you actually realize how shitty it feels to be working on an upload right up until someone just ups it with an eighth of the tags you did.
Updated
Here are a few proposals I had to also combat this sort of 'glory' uploading, which I've also had discussion with another Moderator+ level user about, in addition to the supposed reservation system.
