create alias special_feeling_(meme) -> special_feeling
Name stands out enough to make the extension unnecesary.
Resubmitting because topic #10305 was apparently omitted (and pending alias has been mysteriously deleted?)
Updated by 葉月
Posted under Tags
create alias special_feeling_(meme) -> special_feeling
Name stands out enough to make the extension unnecesary.
Resubmitting because topic #10305 was apparently omitted (and pending alias has been mysteriously deleted?)
Updated by 葉月
???
But this is simple case of tagging integrity. We don't add extensions unless there is tag name conflict. In particular, we don't do it with meme tags. Every single meme tag we have here is straightforward one without unnecessary extension(s), the one and only exception I've found is myon_(phrase) which is used to be distinguished from myon from touhou. Is there anything else we are tagging here by special_feeling?
NeverGonnaGive said:
If its generic nature ever comes to bite our qualifier-dropping in the ass, we can de-alias at that time.
No, we don't go out of our way to use an ambiguous name if we know that it's ambiguous ahead of time and then just wait for when it does bite us in the ass. We should try to use non-ambiguous names from the start if we can so people don't get used to the other name.
Would we expect any general tags of these two words that wouldn't also be a meme, if that counts toward consideration? Otherwise, maybe add more of the (translated) quote, like special feeling immersion?
Sigh.
This meme is visually very easy to recognize, plus is already wiki'd, which makes its potential ambiguity - and thus probability of making a serious mess in the future - close to zero.
...which in fact hardly matters, because we have tens of more ambigious meme tags right now in use, and somehow it never posed a slightest problem.
Fun fact: if the person who introduced this tag had named it without (meme), nobody would give a damn. Exactly as it happened many times earlier. To be honest at first I even thought about mass editing it, but decided that meh, too much work. Rrrright.
@NeverGonnaGive - if you ask me, I see no reason why to complicate things with name changing, and whole world knows it already as Special Feeling (特別な気分).
richie said:
Fun fact: if the person who introduced this tag had named it without (meme), nobody would give a damn. Exactly as it happened many times earlier. To be honest at first I even thought about mass editing it, but decided that meh, too much work. Rrrright.
Uh, I would have made the opposite thread a couple weeks ago if it hadn't been qualified. This is the exact thing I thought the moment I saw the tag.
If there are really all these other tags that are overly generic perhaps you should make a list instead of bitching about them in a thread completely unrelated to them?
NeverGonnaGive said:
If its generic nature ever comes to bite our qualifier-dropping in the ass, we can de-alias at that time. Otherwise, the wiki and tag's content oughta stand indicative.
This is really stupid and the exact opposite of how things have been moving for the past year+. Have you seen the number of pages on the artist alias thread? Or the number of characters we've had to move because someone went "well this will never clash with anything/will be the most famous character ever with this name" and then we had to move it?
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With such support for keeping qualification, how could I object further? Not that it's functionally bad, it just kinda clashes; my feeble memory doesn't immediately recall any other *_meme tags, though I don't doubt clicking that would show more. Perhaps we should round up possibly ambiguous meme tags...
NeverGonnaGive said:
With such support for keeping qualification, how could I object further? Not that it's functionally bad, it just kinda clashes; my feeble memory doesn't immediately recall any other *_meme tags, though I don't doubt clicking that would show more. Perhaps we should round up possibly ambiguous meme tags...
on that;
There actually aren't any other *_(meme) tags out there at the moment. On the other hand, some memes aren't "named" per say and just use the generic meme tag. There are plenty of meme tags though too. tag group:meme has a pretty extensive list.
One can argue whether or not some of those deserve a (meme) qualifier or not, like girl power, promotions, or objection, but the it seems like for now at least, Special Feeling is unique in people thinking it needs one.
I actually don't mind the qualifier being on the end there, for the record. Maybe it's not needed, but it does feel natural there to me at least.
Log said:
If there are really all these other tags that are overly generic perhaps you should make a list instead of bitching about them in a thread completely unrelated to them?
But I don't have any problem with them.
And neither you do, or else you'd do something about it long time ago, wouldn't you?
Saduharta said:
Maybe it's not needed, but it does feel natural there to me at least.
Basic psychology - we are getting accustomed to many things we have seen/learned as first and later we feel it's only natural to have them.
In such cases we need arguments and not emotions. So here, I'm listening: why special_feeling is so unique that it needs a qualifier.
The qualifier isn't hurting anything, it can only help.
Besides the ambiguity mentioned earlier another thing the qualifier helps with is it makes it more obvious what the tag is for. If I saw just special_feeling without a qualifier I'd have no idea what it is, but the _(meme) qualifier makes it clear at a glance that it's a meme. Same could be said of other existing meme tags, honestly I wouldn't mind adding a _(meme) qualifier to a lot of them too.
richie said:
Basic psychology - we are getting accustomed to many things we have seen/learned as first and later we feel it's only natural to have them.
Yeah, it seems you're accustomed to meme tags not having a qualifier so you feel that it's natural that this one not have a qualifier either.
Toks said:
Besides the ambiguity mentioned earlier
...purely subjective one...
another thing the qualifier helps with is it makes it more obvious what the tag is for. If I saw just special_feeling without a qualifier I'd have no idea what it is,
...and then you'd click once or twice, and unless your brain is working in slow motion you'd learn what it is instantly.
Same could be said of other existing meme tags, honestly I wouldn't mind adding a _(meme) qualifier to a lot of them too.
But why being so modest? I suggest in that case go full ahead, and add preemptively a lot more other qualifiers like (object), (body_part), (attire), (act), not to mention (artist) (title) (character) and many others. I am absolutely convinced that such qualifers "wouldn't hurt anything, and could only help with making it more obvious what the tag is for" *smirk*
Yeah, it seems you're accustomed to meme tags not having a qualifier so you feel that it's natural that this one not have a qualifier either.
Close, but no cigar.
The rules that I'm trying to follow are simple - we're adding qualifier only when it's necessary. When real conflict or ambiguity arises, like happened for example between dakimakura and dakimakura_(object).
What you are trying to do, is to subjectively enforce that something needs a qualifier and something not. Just because. Your rule says that there is no rule. All leading in result to the one of most ridiculous discussions I have displeasure to be involved here. And even worse, that would be only the begining.
The fact that the "rule" of adding a qualifier only in case of conflict doesn't exist should be evident from the well over a hundred character tags ending with "_(kantai_collection)". Only in a fairly small fraction of them is there any conflict (e.g. with akatsuki_(log_horizon) or haruna_(battleship)), yet the qualifier is applied to all of them.
Also, with respect to the claim that ambiguous meme tags have never caused a problem, see post #1399926, post #1045375, post #1019708, and post #1013622, for example, which misuse yandere_trance as a general descriptor.
Updated
279okshap said:
The fact that the "rule" of adding a qualifier only in case of conflict doesn't exist should be evident from the well over a hundred character tags ending with "_(kantai_collection)". Only in a fairly small fraction of them is there any conflict (e.g. with akatsuki_(log_horizon) or haruna_(battleship)), yet the qualifier is applied to all of them.
The rule generally applies and qualifiers are only used for the characters for which a conflict has already happened or is foreseeable.
We usually don't use "for consistency's sake" as an argument to qualify ALL characters from a franchise just because many of them needed the qualifier.
If this has happened to Kantai Collection, than it probably has not been discussed on the forum.
Are there actually any kancolle character names that aren't super ambiguous or already clash with other tags?
Toks said:
It was discussed, see here. The kantai collection characters need qualifiers to differentiate them from the ships they're named after.
Yes, but I meant ALL characters.
I see that there are unambiguous names like error musume, and she didn't get a qualifier, so that's within the constraints of the rule.
If what 279okshap said was true, then many characters like error musume would have qualifiers.