Posted under General
albert you went overboard yet again. When I refer to "mod team" I'm referring to anyone who has access to the mod queue, not the 4-6 mods who still actively use the site plus you and jxh. There is zero harm in letting janitors know who is flagging things and hiding it just prevents us from keeping an eye out for repeat offenders on flags for things being loli and such.
But I'm curious, do any janitors really pay attention to the reasons for flagging/appeal when they look at an image that has been flagged?
Yes, I do. If I agree with the flag or appeal, I undelete the picture or let it die in the mod queue (again).
Log said:
albert you went overboard yet again. When I refer to "mod team" I'm referring to anyone who has access to the mod queue, not the 4-6 mods who still actively use the site plus you and jxh. There is zero harm in letting janitors know who is flagging things and hiding it just prevents us from keeping an eye out for repeat offenders on flags for things being loli and such.
Also, this. I don't see why janitors aren't allowed to see who is flagging something, but are allowed to see who is appealing. It should be one or the other, not half and half like it is now.
Being able to see who is flagging what and for what is useful too for handing out records, like Log said, be they positive for people who catch things we don't, or neutral/negative for those who flag for stupid reasons.
I don't see a problem with seeing who appealed a post. You can already see who posts in the "deletion appeal" thread.
BTW, I never got "angry dmails" for flagging images. They only badmouth me in the comments of the flagged posts, which I am okay with. Seeing who flags a post is pretty handy even for non-janitors. (edit: and even when it's anonymous, they know it was me anyway)
Since this is really a thread about changes of the flag/appeal system, I propose a flag/appeal history for each user so you can check what happens to the posts you flag/appeal. Currently, I'd have to favourite every post I flag, so I can find them again later. The user and staff can extract statistics from this:
Examples:
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It was good to know who flags what and why. The greater transparency meant that they'd be greater restraint on frivolous flagging. Flaggers should be under the same level of public scrutiny as everybody else who makes changes to a post.
If harassment is an issue then deal with the harassment itself. Overhauling the system because some people got their feelings hurt is a rash move. We already have guide lines on civility and out lines on how to handle abusive behavior.
Action_Kamen said:
It was good to know who flags what and why. The greater transparency meant that they'd be greater restraint on frivolous flagging. Flaggers should be under the same level of public scrutiny as everybody else who makes changes to a post.
You might be missing the issue of scope of responsibilities.
All users, regardless of level, are able to edit tags, notes, and ratings. Being able to see the history for these things allows users to easily undo their own (or others') mistakes, or to see when mischief has been done so as to help with the policing of the site.
In the case of flags, only Priveleged/Builders and up can do them, and only Janitors and upwards can deal with them once they've been given. The only things lower-level users really need to know are which images have been flagged back to the moderation queue, and why; the Janitorial team are the only ones who have a genuine use for the who.
If harassment is an issue then deal with the harassment itself. Overhauling the system because some people got their feelings hurt is a rash move. We already have guide lines on civility and out lines on how to handle abusive behavior.
I can see where you're coming from, and I don't entirely disagree. However, consider this:
It is entirely possible to create 8 dozen fly-by-night sockpuppet accounts, and use them to spam a user's inbox with hateful dmails. When one gets blocked, the offender can simply switch to another. If a ban on all accounts from the offender's IP is set, they can just as easily call for and receive "backup" via an anonymous message board, thus defeating the purpose of pinpointing an attack at the source. (The latter, I have seen done to other sites in real time, and it was not pretty.)
Having one's user name displayed on an unpopular flag would open them up to this kind of abuse. Conversely, having their name on said flag visible only to the ones who must deal with said flag (i.e. Janitors) would not open them up to such, and yet would still keep them visible for regulatory action to the people capable of it, should it prove necessary.
Unfortunately all users can now flag. This really makes the ability for Janitors to be able to see who flags far more important.
Another issue not many people would notice: When RaisingK flags pixiv samples I know 100% that he has verified the parent is correct. When other users flag these same posts I have to verify the parent is correct to prevent pulling a rantuyetmai.
Action_Kamen said:
It was good to know who flags what and why.
First of all we still know why, and that's fine.
Knowing who flags was not. A failure of such system was not only predictable from the begining but also became lately more than evident. And hiding (protecting) flaggers is best course of action. At least for now.
Words about "dealing with the harassment itself" are sweet and dandy, except the truth is noone gives a damn when another user is being badmouthed and abused only because he dared to flag some pictures.
Though, I agree that some kind of statistics would be more than useful.
Log said:
Unfortunately all users can now flag.
Since when all users could flag? If that's true, then I may have my stance revised.
But best solution is to leave basic users chance to report bad posts only through deletion request thread in this forum. And leave anonymous flagging to all priv+.
Edit: "anonymous" meaning visible to janitors+. I thought earlier the less people could see their names the better, but I feel convinced now that janitors should be included too.
Updated
forum #59549 was the change that brought flags to everyone.
Basic users were allowed to flag after the deletion thread got more and more use, resulting in more backlogs of posts requesting review. If I recall correctly there was mention of reducing the encumbrance on the mod team by letting the members take care of part of the process on their own, with certain restrictions in place like the 10-flag daily limit to curb abuse.
It's led to some amount of silly flags, as expected, but as far as I've seen, looking over the list of flagged posts each day, the number of legit flags far outweigh the dumb ones, which get re-approved in short order anyway.
Acknowledging the fact that basic members can flag posts too, I'm no longer so enthusiastic with idea of its anonymity. Perhaps the perfect balance would be if everyone could flag, but only priv+ would be anonymous. I'm not trying to be an elitist here, but the fact is statisticaly privs+ are better educated in danbooru standards and procedures than statistic basic member. Privs+ also have more to lose if they abuse the rules. That's why they deserve protection of anonymity (under janitors' supervision) from stupid badmouthing and personal attacks.
Harassment is harassment. No matter what the rank, it should be discouraged, especially when we're simply trying to uphold Danbooru's quality standards. As long as flaggers are still visible to those with approval powers, abusers are easily rooted out, after all - but that would require that visibility to be fixed first, of course.
On a related note, however, it seems like the harassment may need an active hand to put a stop to it for the time being. Someone just tried to call S1eth out on a image flagged to receive proper review... that wasn't even flagged by him.
Updated
richie said:
Acknowledging the fact that basic members can flag posts too, I'm no longer so enthusiastic with idea of its anonymity. Perhaps the perfect balance would be if everyone could flag, but only priv+ would be anonymous. I'm not trying to be an elitist here, but the fact is statisticaly privs+ are better educated in danbooru standards and procedures than statistic basic member. Privs+ also have more to lose if they abuse the rules. That's why they deserve protection of anonymity (under janitors' supervision) from stupid badmouthing and personal attacks.
I think that breaks the entire point of anonymity, it should be hidden to everyone except janitors+, for the reason that only at that level do people need to know who is flagging the posts.
Arrei said:
Harassment is harassment. No matter what the rank, it should be discouraged, especially when we're simply trying to uphold Danbooru's quality standards.
Of course. All I'm saying those with higher rank have more to lose (their account - because only basic one is for free here) and therefore you can expect from them better behaviour. Generally.
Anelaid said:
I think that breaks the entire point of anonymity, it should be hidden to everyone except janitors+, for the reason that only at that level do people need to know who is flagging the posts.
Be my guest, however remember that - quoting Soljashy - it is entirely possible to create 8 dozen fly-by-night sockpuppet basic user accounts, and then... I'll leave it to your imagination. And while I believe mod team would deal with it in the end, whole idea of flagging could be ultimatively compromised. Especially if this happens once again. But if everyone see where those crazy flags are coming from (ie. just another sockpuppet account) then the damage will be smaller.
ps. hopefully I'm a bad prophet
A good thing to limit this is to make it similar to uploading posts, by putting a several week delay between when an account is made and when it can flag posts.
I can see there being an inconvenience, but anyone who is going to flag a post should be on here for a little bit just as a precaution.
But how many posts are flagged on average, per day/week?
