Accents should die - discuss

Regarding the shitstorm in post #186289, can we get an official policy against using accents in tags?

We don't use a cedilla in ZnT Louise's name (per albert's decision, no less), because nobody would ever think to type it, and even if by some miracle they did you should NOT have to memorize an alt+#### sequence or start>run>charmap to type a tag. This is no different.

Unless one of two things are viable options, accents should be taboo:

1) If the name is unique enough that you can simply alias an unaccented version to an accented version, so people can continue to use the readily accessible version. We could technically do this for Louise if we had a cedilla fetish.

2) Similarly, if danbooru can be programmed to automagically search ấ, ầ, ẩ, ẫ, ậ, ắ, ẳ, ả, ā, ă, à, á, â, ã, ä, å, and whatever else as well when a user types in 'a'.

The former does the same as the latter (just manually on a case by case basis) and with less hassle for albert. I suggest that one. Actually, I suggest killing accents with fire, but barring that, there must be an option to type the tag normally and find the accented version.

But since tags are still generally intended to be unique when possible, aliasing won't work for something like "ángel". In this situation, the only reasonable decision is to add a qualifier at the end.

There's presumably a reason why we make such a desperate effort to romanize artist names (often getting it wrong in the process): because most of us don't know Japanese and can't be bothered to struggle with Japanese input. Similarly, inputting accents is a hassle and unnecessary as long as a tag is unique (which, in the case of the post in question, could have been achieved by adding a _(king_of_fighters) suffix). I also believe the ranma½ tag is stupid. I'm siding with jxh2154 and Gargamuza in this debate.

tldr: Prefer standard ASCII characters whenever possible in tags.

I don't see why we couldn't just have aliases. The site has been moving steadily towards maximum quality and accuracy, and I see that as a part of that process. Ángel's name is Ángel (as LaC has proven), so that's what the tags should display. I submitted angel_{(kof),(king_of_fighters)} aliases immediately after that discussion, so people can continue searching for it (except that they weren't approved, so they can't).

葉月 said:
Ángel's name is Ángel

You mean Angel. Nowhere you'll find the name Ángel, because that's not the name SNK gave to the character. Next time you'll tell me that Robert Garcia's real name is Roberto because he's Italian. Stop that argument, it's ridiculous.

Not only her name isn't Ángel, KOF fans know her by Angel. They won't find her with the accent, and the idea of using the accent won't occur to them, because that's something someone here came up with.

There's absolutely no need to use Ángel. I'll ask again: give me a single good reason to use that non-canon name that outweighs all the cons I've mentioned. Maximum quality and accuracy obviously don't count, as Ángel meets none of those characteristics for reasons I've already mentioned.

I submitted angel_{(kof),(king_of_fighters)} aliases immediately after that discussion, so people can continue searching for it (except that they weren't approved, so they can't).

http://miezaru.donmai.us/post_tag_history?post_id=186289

Why did you revert the tags I added, then?

As for accents in general, I agree that they are a hassle. At least, there should be an option to use multiple aliases.

Gargamuza said:
You mean Angel. Nowhere you'll find the name Ángel, because that's not the name SNK gave to the character. Next time you'll tell me that Robert Garcia's real name is Roberto because he's Italian. Stop that argument, it's ridiculous.

If you bothered to read the discussion, particularly the posts by LaC, you'd know why her name is Ángel. But it seems that you being a Certified KOF Fan™ clouds your reading comprehension, and I'm not going to repeat here what's been already said in great detail.

I think it's pretty amusing that you'd cling to such an obviously incorrect concept that the official name is wrong and the romanized katakana version of the name is correct. The more I think about it, the funnier it gets! :D

If I could fuel my car with obtuseness I would keep discussing this with both you and LaC. But since I can't, this is the last post I'll make on this subject.

My two cents are that it's funny to see the double standard between macrons and accents. I actually don't abhor macrons as much as many here, but can see how their elimination and replacement: ("ō" to "ou") helps when it comes to being able to look things up.

Although I'm actually against the German convention of replacing umlauts for printing and typing purposes ("Schröder" becomes "Schroeder"), I can see that for Danbooru that sort of thing might make sense.

I don't think French or Spanish officially have similar systems, but where they have them, or we could make them, they would also make sense. Regardless, it would make sense to at least alias a non-accented version of the tag, like Wikipedia does with redirects.

I'm with 葉月 in this one. Aliasing the tag is much better. Even I, being a spanish language user, rarely use the accents when searching for something in my own language.
I think that "angel_(king_of_fighter)" or something like that is better when searching for this character.

葉月 said:
If you bothered to read the discussion, particularly the posts by LaC, you'd know why her name is Ángel. But it seems that you being a Certified KOF Fan™ clouds your reading comprehension, and I'm not going to repeat here what's been already said in great detail.

So, Robert Garcia's real name is Roberto Garcia? Stop ignoring my arguments.

Besides, I've read LaC's posts. They are irrelevant to the discussion, if you haven't realized it already.

As far as I know, the rules of this site say that we should go by the name the character has in the anime/game the character appears in. Since no KOF has Angel named as Ángel, using any other name is not correct and is just a personal interpretation of the name, which is impractical for this site, and not accurate.

Fans are the people most interested in fanart of the characters they like, so putting incorrect names only makes it harder for them to find the pictures they like.

So, will you come up with any real argument/s or are you going to keep up like this?

Gargamuza said:
So, Robert Garcia's real name is Roberto Garcia? Stop ignoring my arguments.

Besides, I've read LaC's posts. They are irrelevant to the discussion, if you haven't realized it already.

As far as I know, the rules of this site say that we should go by the name the character has in the anime/game the character appears in. Since no KOF has Angel named as Ángel, using any other name is not correct and is just a personal interpretation of the name, which is impractical for this site, and not accurate.

Fans are the people most interested in fanart of the characters they like, so putting incorrect names only makes it harder for them to find the pictures they like.

So, will you come up with any real argument/s or are you going to keep up like this?

I'm Spanish, and Robert is no Roberto, but accents yes. I'm not sure how could yo compare it to the accents, don't compare two totally unrelated things.

My full name has 3 accents and no matter what they should be there. It makes a total difference of how it sounds and you could even miss-spell it if you heard it and didn't know how to write it, it's not the particular case of Ángel but it could be on other situation.

I vote for aliases, it should be there for common "miss-spells", it can't be called other thing here.

We don't use a cedilla in ZnT Louise's name (per albert's decision, no less), because nobody would ever think to type it, and even if by some miracle they did you should NOT have to memorize an alt+#### sequence or start>run>charmap to type a tag. This is no different.

I have a key on my kb for typing ç, even if it's hard to type we shouldn't change people's names, for example for me typing a with circle on top is totally impossible but I keep my point of view

Shuugo said:
I'm Spanish, and Robert is no Roberto, but accents yes. I'm not sure how could yo compare it to the accents, don't compare two totally unrelated things.

It's not unrelated, because the only reason why some people want to use Ángel instead of Angel is that Angel is Mexican, hence she should use an accent since it's a Spanish speaking country.

But if we go by this logic, Robert Garcia should be named Roberto since Robert isn't an Italian name and could probably be the result of a misstranslation.

The thing is, there's no way to prove that Angel should be named Ángel other than speculation, since the company that created her didn't use the accent.

Gargamuza said:
But if we go by this logic, Robert Garcia should be named Roberto since Robert isn't an Italian name and could probably be the result of a misstranslation.

I'm not sure from which country you come but here we don't do that. Angel is Ángel, Robert is Robert and not Roberto. I have a spanish friend with the name "Robert". You are talking about translating a name, not about typing it correctly.

Where the name comes is obvious, and if it were a real person we would need to be based on official records, since it isn't, whoever named it is to blame here. And it's a strange case imho, just alias it.

Shuugo said:
Angel is Ángel

Why? She could be named Angel in a Spanish speaking country. We don't write Robert as Róbert, so I don't see why we should write Angel as Ángel.

BTW, I'm from Argentina.

Gargamuza said:
Why? She could be named Angel in a Spanish speaking country. We don't write Robert as Róbert, so I don't see why we should write Angel as Ángel.

BTW, I'm from Argentina.

You are messing pronunciation with writing. So are you saying that when you are refering to that "Angel" you when you say it out loud you pronounce it like if it had "Angél"
with e being the most sounding vowel.

That's the meaning of not putting the Á in the Ángel name

Shuugo said: I have a key on my kb for typing ç

That's great, but 90% (at least) of the rest of us do not.

Shuugo:

By the same logic, we should write Robert as Róbert, because otherwise we would have to pronounce it as Robért.

But we know that's not the case.

Gargamuza said:
Shuugo:

By the same logic, we should write Robert as Róbert, because otherwise we would have to pronounce it as Robért.

But we know that's not the case.

Seriously learn before talking. It aggravates me. You don't put accents on foreign names.

http://www.google.com/search?q=reglas+acentos+rae

jxh2154 said:
That's great, but 90% (at least) of the rest of us do not.

As I said I wouldn't be able to do an a with a circle on it. Anyways we are discussing like aliases due to accents are something database and/or cpu "expensive", and the most common case of tagging.
Whatever is decided I'm fine with it, I was just trying to state my point of view.

Shuugo said:
Seriously learn before talking. It aggravates me. You don't put accents on foreign names.

Why do you consider Angel, without an accent, is a Spanish name? Especially considering that the female version of Ángel is Ángela?

Calm down that rage, pal.

Either way, this discussion shouldn't be taking place since her name is Angel, regardless of her country.

Gargamuza said:
Why do you consider Angel, without an accent, is a Spanish name? Especially considering that the female version of Ángel is Ángela?

Calm down that rage, pal.

Either way, this discussion shouldn't be taking place since her name is Angel, regardless of her country.

Say whatever you want, you don't have proof it's like you say, and neither do I. I'm tired of this discussion that's not getting anywhere.

You are just wrong saying that "we say it's Ángel instead of Angel because it sounds like Mexican" it makes us look like we are xenophobic, and makes me mad