Posted under General
... is being mis-used. What's the point in tagging post #822640 or post #821910 with myon? It is messing up the character count without being of any use.
That's why I'd like to ask everyone to tag myon only on posts with the ghost doing something noticeable, otherwise skip it and use ghost instead. Much like pyonta case.
Same consensus in forum #8593.
I'll clean the tag this weekend if no one has already done that.
Updated by S1eth
I really disagree with this.
post #815067 is both myon and a bunch of generic ghosts.
post #820040 is myon and yuyu's ghosts.
post #383267 is yuyu with myon.
post #616720 is youmu with generic ghosts.
This is a clash of "tag what you see" and the notion of "tag what you want to search for." The same goes for various forms of animal pieces (as in forum #53634) where it's either tagged because it's there or because it's specifically interesting. On the case of Pyonta as well.
Personally, I'm of the opinion of "if it's there in any way for any reason, tag it." That's been upheld in some places and turned down in others. A chime-in from The Overlord might help...
When I want to search for good Youmu pictures, I enter konpaku_youmu myon chartags:2 rating:s order:score, so I don't only get half of the character, whether Youmu does something interesting with her ghost half or not.
Of course, myon IS Youmu (half or her), just like post #618932 is Tatara Kogasa. If the ghost half does anything interesting, it is actually Youmu who does something interesting. It could just as well be a general tag and imply konpaku youmu if it weren't for myon -konpaku_youmu pictures of ghosts that can only be identified as Youmu by reading the artist's comment.
It is messing up the character count without being of any use.
It's the same for Alice. Assuming I want to search for solo pictures of Alice (I can't use alice_margatroid solo because solo is undertagged and shows me maybe 5% of what I want), my tag search would have to look something like this: {{alice_margatroid ~chartags:1 ~{shanghai_doll chartags:2} ~{hourai_doll chartags:2} ~{goliath_doll chartags:2} ~{shanghai_doll hourai_doll chartags:3} ~{shanghai_doll goliath_doll chartags:3} ~{hourai_doll goliath_doll chartags:3} ~{shanghai_doll hourai_doll goliath_doll chartags:4} }}, and even if that worked, I would also get the dolls when they "do something interesting" = are characters.
Definite misuses of myon are:
post #401341, Konpaku Youki's ghost half
post #137943, Hieda no Akyuu with ghost
post #131510, Onozuka Komachi with ghost
post #452358, Saigyouji Yuyuko with ghost
If you have time to clean up myon pictures, you could instead add solo to all konpaku_youmu myon chartags:2 -solo and ghost to konpaku_youmu myon -ghost where appropriate.
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If anything I think forum #8593's consensus would be to keep things the way they are now.
If I want hatless pictures of Suwako where pyonta had no need to be tagged there's no_hat and hat_removed.
Doesn't work for Youmu.
I'd rather keep the ghost tag for anything that doesn't look like a hitodama, and tagging myon simply as hitodama doesn't work either given the data loss that Log pointed out.
EDIT: on the other hands it seems ghost is being misused a lot on Yuyuko just like vampire is with Remilia and Flandre.
S1eth > I don't think I've ever tagged an image of Alice + dolls as solo given how lively they usually are. It just seems wrong to me.
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Tagging should always make usefulness priority. We cannot just blindly tag "everything you see" like cat_ears to all the cat posts, or no_panties to all the nude posts. We can argue "cat_ears" and "no panties" are really there, true, but what are we trying to accomplish by tagging them? It defeats the purpose and dilute away the contents for those who really want to search for each of those specific tag.
With that argument, let's look at Youmu and her ghost. The ghost is a part of her character design, much like how Suwako's hat and Kogasa's umbrella are. Myon and Pyonta got their name because there are images of them being a character, giving people a purpose to search for. E.g. post #812744
Yet in Kogasa's umbrella case, the fandom hasn't create any silly name for it yet even when it's being a character (post #823564, post #651492). And is the status quo fine? People who don't bother with it will say "yes". Supposedly the name myon has never surfaced, all the posts are being tag with only konpaku_youmu and ghost, would the status quo be fine? People who don't bother with it will say "yes" too. That's why I don't take the conclusion "things seem fine the way they are now" for granted, it's superficial.
It's good to tag the ghost because it's there, but why use a character tag type (myon)?? It's a feature of Youmu, I don't understand why would post #814940 has 2 characters. Furthermore, it's very, truly hard now to search for posts with Myon being a character, instead of just a generic ghost.
tatara kogasa's umbrella = tatara kogasa
su-san = medicine_melancholy (not yet mentioned)
myon = konpaku youmu
pyonta = hat
mouse basket nazrin = that rodent which never does anything interesting
Kogasa, su-san and myon are characters and pyonta (the hat) is a removable fashion accessory. The character technically can't exist without their umbrella/su-san/myon and/or vice-versa. Suwako can just put on a different costume.
In that sense, Kogasa, Su-san (Medicine) and Myon (Youmu) are always characters whether they do something interesting or not. The chartags: is still off, youmu is 1 char, myon is 1 char, youmu+myon is 1 char (unless clone/dual persona). We can't combine two tags to count as chartags:1, though.
I'm for only tagging when of interest as well...
I tag pictures with [thighs] only if I believe attention is drawn to a character(or humanoid object)'s thighs...
Adding [thighs] simply for their presence would result in having to tag any picture with a complete human shaped object...
Since Youmu's ghost half is a part of her, it should be sufficient to simply look up konpaku_youmu since it would be implied to be part of the character...
looking otherwise could be compared to looking for pictures where the character has only one hand visible, or pictures where the character is only visible from the waist up...
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If we were to think of it as an accessory, though, we could simply add [ghost] or [hinotama] or [will'o wisp] or something;
then a user looking for youmu without her ghost half could simply add: [-wisp(or whatever we think her ghost half looks like)], with the presence of Youmu's wisp(or whatever)looking half being justification for a [wisp(or similar)] tag that [wisp(etc)] searching users should expect to find...
This solution would fulfill both the criteria of 'tag what you see' and 'tag what you would search for'...
Updated
Bansho said:
Since Youmu's ghost half is a part of her, it should be sufficient to simply look up konpaku_youmu since it would be implied to be part of the character...looking otherwise could be compared to looking for pictures where the character has only one hand visible, or pictures where the character is only visible from the waist up...
We have a tag for that, it's called bust, also portrait, face and head_out_of_frame. Use them! (bringing those tags to your attention is the only reason for this response)
"would" if most/all of them had myon in it.
konpaku_youmu -myon 238 pages
konpaku_youmu myon 180 pages
the absence of the ghost half is more common than its presence.
myon -ghost -hitodama -clone -dual_persona 105 pages
...users are very eager to add character tags, but they are lazy with general tags.
PS: You could use double '[' & ']' around the tags you post.
S1eth said:
konpaku_youmu -myon 238 pages
konpaku_youmu myon 180 pages
the absence of the ghost half is more common than its presence.
[238/(238 + 180)] * 100% = 56%
More common? Look like half-half situation to me. Not to mention there're people who never tag regular myon so the absence number is not justified.
And why can't that be covered by konpaku_youmu -ghost?
myon -ghost -hitodama -clone -dual_persona 105 pages
...users are very eager to add character tags, but they are lazy with general tags.
It's because they thought the practice is to use myon for the ghost. We are discussing to fix that.
Updated
Tags are additive. For every user who never tags regular myon, 10 other users who do see the post. Unless you mean that a user removed the myon tag from a large amount of Youmu pictures (enough to make a twelve percent difference) before thinking about discussing it in the forum.
What was the point again? Ah, yes, that unlike cat ears for cats, myon isn't a given in Youmu pictures, and not in konpaku_youmu ~ghost ~hitodama pictures either. post #821043.
BTW, what is your definition of myon doing something interesting, and how would you handle -konpaku_youmu myon images, such as the ones I linked in my first post?
edit:
search for konpaku_youmu white_hair solo and get white haired youmu only
search for konpaku_youmu ~ghost ~hitodama solo and get post #495974
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