Posted under General
After the clarification of the garter and garter belt tags from forum #17558, I began cleaning up garter tag and I stumbled upon the arm garter and leg garter tags.
The leg garter tag tags the same article of clothing as the garter tag so should leg garter be aliased to garter? Or should garter become more of an umbrella tag for leg and arm garters?
Updated by Azalyn
The leg_garter tag, at least to my understanding and how I've used it in the past, is more for when the character has a band around their leg (usually only one) without stockings. They're purely cosmetic and serve no practical purpose, where as garters are worn to keep stockings up in place without falling.
Oh boy. This is going to be a huge clean-up if I understand this correctly.
To summarize:
Did I miss anything?
Hmm, now that this is bumped, I realized no one ever did answer my question in the other garter thread for which of these tags would apply to post #622173. There are straps, but no belt, and nothing else seems to fit real well.
Shinjidude said:
Hmm, now that this is bumped, I realized no one ever did answer my question in the other garter thread for which of these tags would apply to post #622173. There are straps, but no belt, and nothing else seems to fit real well.
I think a new garter_straps tag as Katajanmarja and NWF Renim mentioned in forum #17558 would be most applicable. As long as the wiki entry makes it clear it's only to be used when a belt isn't visible, it should be worth having.
Although I guess a concern is that it's bound to cause even more confusion within an already confusing set of tags.
ultima said:
[A] concern is that it's bound to cause even more confusion within an already confusing set of tags.
One option is to tag all of these things simply with garter (or garters), encouraging less detail-oriented taggers and gardeners to use that only.
A number of tags like arm_garter, garter_belt, garter_straps etc. would be used by lingerie lovers enthusiastic enough to read the wiki, too. Each of these tags would imply garter.
The Wikipedia article on garter (stockings) does not really help to sort out the subtleties of terminology involved. It does, however, inspire me to ask if we should use wedding_garter for a decoration-only garter band with no straps (e.g. post #145423).
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EDIT: A clumsier but more unambiguous choice for the umbrella tag could be garter_lingerie, or something.
Updated
One more precise way to sort out all the confusion and alias's is to kill the stockings->thighhighs alias, and label stockings for what they really are; moe.imouto's users have finally dumped that alias and started tagging the two pieces of hosiery correctly for a few months now.
For a long time I've been trying to go through the thighhighs tag and add the garter_belt tag (to the appropriate ones) so that this can be done, but more stuff gets dropped in faster than I'm ever able to correct the existing ones (like 4000 pages worth now, 800 more than when I started). Very simple way to implement the correct usage is to query the tags table for any rows with both garter_belt and thighhighs. All matches should be images with characters in stockings.
You physically can't wear stockings w/o a garter belt. If you're wearing a garter belt (or corset/bustier with garters) wearing (real) thighhighs would defeat the purpose. To do so would be needlessly redundant; can't really think of a good correlate piece of men's clothes that can better illustrate why the two can't mix :P The 'garter' article is typically associated with one that goes around the leg, whereas the arm garter is specially called so (irl) to avoid the confusion.
Wow. Quite a job you have there, Azalyn.
You might want to read what Shinjidude, Jjj14 and myself wrote about the classification of thighhighs under forum #34661.
(Indeed, I maintain we are dealing with at least three different sorts of hosiery. True, traditional stockings are the only type usually combined with garter straps or band-type garters. Discussing why the cruel realities of life might force one to wear a garter belt with slightly worn over-knee socks is not really a Danbooru topic... As for stay-ups, I am not too familiar with them, but I think the elastic band is usually too thick to allow attaching a garter-strap clip -- preventing the use of too loose stay-ups as improvised stockings.)
Updated
I don't think killing the stocking -> thighhighs alias would resolve any of the confusion that might result with the other garter tags. Not that I have an issues with stockings being unaliased, but it'll need to implicate thighhighs.
Personally I don't think there will be much confusion in the long run over the usage of garter_strap versus garter_belt, it'll only be a short term confusion before people understand the difference in use.
There might be a bit more confusion with garter and leg_garter, but given how garter is used, I think a leg_garter -> garter implication would make sense. People will still tag both garter, they more or less are the same thing, just one isn't holding up stockings, and people who garden the tags can always add the more accurate leg_garter tag to those being used only as decoration.
@NWF I was going to suggest still leaving the stockings -> thighhighs alias to allow for a broard search while adding a stocking tag. Maybe wehen people get used to the correct way to identify clothes that can be taken away when they're all sorted properly.
The way tags have evolved introducing the stocking tag (after searching through the tables for the matches) will (hopefully) follow the path of ppl labeling thighhighs or pantyhose colors resulting in a quick learning curve.
A garter strap is part of a garter belt, unless you were thinking of something else? While there are special or proper occasions to wear a garter on the leg (despite what hosiery you're wearing), its appearance is usually denoting something sexual/sensual in nature when used outside of a wedding setting.
@reese there are times when a garter can be attached to a stocking in order to keep it up. Sakura from CCS can be seen wearing stockings in that manner; generally they're just for show; and a convenient place to hide things ^^ If I weren't about to pass out from being up 36 hours now I'd find some images that clearly illustrate each of the parts in question so we can correctly associate lingeie pieces to where/how they're worn.
There are garments other than garter belts that can have straps to hold up stockings. Just seeing the strap does not guarantee it's a garter belt that they're dangling from. When a belt isn't visible, the element being tagged isn't a garter belt, it's a garter strap.
I'm frankly content with the whole thighhighs being an umbrella tag based on the items length and not specific articles of clothing, especially given that there can be very little difference in appearance between the garments. It might sound odd that thigh boots can look like thighhighs or stockings, but if you actually look through the tag you'd find that there are plenty of examples that highlight this fact because of how artists draw them.
NWF_Renim said:
I'm frankly content with the whole thighhighs being an umbrella tag based on the items length and not specific articles of clothing, especially given that there can be very little difference in appearance between the garments. It might sound odd that thigh boots can look like thighhighs or stockings, but if you actually look through the tag you'd find that there are plenty of examples that highlight this fact because of how artists draw them.
This absolutely is correct. Not to mention that sometimes a character wears an article of clothing that is, quite frankly, impossible. Look at Cocona's thighhigh boot stocking...things: post #622114
The absolute most I'm willing to do (and even then only potentially), regarding stockings -> thighhighs is turn it from an alias into an implication, but not to remove the connection entirely.
Every post that falls under thighhighs now should continue to do so in the future. That is the absolute least that we've set down as a policy. I am not opposed to people adding something more specific, though, and if it's felt that freeing stockings up will dramatically improve tagging, I would at least consider the idea.
As for the garter mess, I think I just agree with how NWF put everything.
jxh2154 said:
The absolute most I'm willing to do (and even then only potentially), regarding stockings -> thighhighs is turn it from an alias into an implication, but not to remove the connection entirely.
Thats's what I was trying to convery, just couldn't think straight at the time.
jxh2154 said:Every post that falls under thighhighs now should continue to do so in the future. That is the absolute least that we've set down as a policy. I am not opposed to people adding something more specific, though, and if it's felt that freeing stockings up will dramatically improve tagging, I would at least consider the idea.
Just like the thigh_boots tag is implicated with thighhighs, adding stockings would be useful as well. Until the thigh_boot tag was added it was frustrating to see those images come up in a search. Much like a thong or g-string is still aliased to panties but has its own tag, adding stockings would be along the same lines.
