Posted under Tags
Damian0358 said:
His opinion does hold weight here...
Very little does it he ever call it the "Reverse Collapse" series but rather more often the "Girls Frontline-Reverse Collapse" series.
While there may be some who do refer to as the Reverse Collapse series, there are others who also call it the Girls' Frontline series, making it a moot point.
BUR #34712 has been rejected.
create implication girls'_frontline -> girls'_frontline_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_neural_cloud -> girls'_frontline_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_2:_exilium -> girls'_frontline_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_glitch_land -> girls'_frontline_(series)
I don't understand why the alias from girls_frontline_(series) to reverse_collapse_(series) is necessary instead of just using the former. If the point is to "ease users into it", it doesn't make sense for everyone be forced to use terminology that an extremely small portion of the fanbase uses as the umbrella tag rather than say the alias that we're implicitly acknowledging that people will be more comfortable searching with anyway.
Jemnite said:
BUR #34712 has been rejected.
create implication girls'_frontline -> girls'_frontline_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_neural_cloud -> girls'_frontline_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_2:_exilium -> girls'_frontline_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_glitch_land -> girls'_frontline_(series)I don't understand why the alias from girls_frontline_(series) to reverse_collapse_(series) is necessary instead of just using the former. If the point is to "ease users into it", it doesn't make sense for everyone be forced to use terminology that an extremely small portion of the fanbase uses as the umbrella tag rather than say the alias that we're implicitly acknowledging that people will be more comfortable searching with anyway.
But what about Reverse Collapse, which is also part GFL?
Jemnite said:
I don't understand why the alias from girls_frontline_(series) to reverse_collapse_(series) is necessary instead of just using the former. If the point is to "ease users into it", it doesn't make sense for everyone be forced to use terminology that an extremely small portion of the fanbase uses as the umbrella tag rather than say the alias that we're implicitly acknowledging that people will be more comfortable searching with anyway.
I will point out that Avatar Legends still has Avatar (series) as an alias despite being technically ambiguous with James Cameron's Avatar, because most folks assume the franchise/series name for the animated Avatar series is just... Avatar, or the same name as the original series, Avatar: The Last Airbender, especially if they are completely unaware that the official franchise name is actually Avatar Legends as discussed in forum #228349. Not even Wikipedia goes with the actual franchise title, going with "Avatar: The Last Airbender (franchise)" instead, and "Avatar Legends" redirects you to the tabletop roleplaying game.
If Avatar Legends can have such an alias, then so too can Reverse Collapse.
Damian0358 said:
I'm going to shoot my shot again for my Reverse Collapse (series) solution again here, because in the three years since, my stance has been affirmed greatly.
No. I'm not even going to elaborate, just no.
sycer13 said:
But what about Reverse Collapse, which is also part GFL?
Forgotten like for the most of the series fans, add it to the bur.
Tomzai said:
No. I'm not even going to elaborate, just no.
Forgotten like for the most of the series fans, add it to the bur.
Now that's guite a passive aggressive reply. If this goes through, are we not going to consider the "Girls' Frontline-Reverse Collapse (series)" as the name? It's wrongful to call it "forgotten", when the remake even now gets attention from players, who started playing Exilium.
sycer13 said:
Are we not going to consider the "Girls' Frontline-Reverse Collapse (series)" as the name?
We do not, RC it a pointless addition to the tag. girls'_frontline_(series) is perfectly fine, short and concise.
sycer13 said:
It's wrongful to call it "forgotten", when the remake even now gets attention from players, who started playing Exilium.
Not really, it's vastly less talked about and gets much less art. It's a lore game that only the biggest girls frontlineheads really care about.
I'm also against using Reverse Collapse as the umbrella tag. Sure, maybe it makes perfect sense to someone who is extremely deep into the lore (like Damian), but to a casual player, like me or most of the users of this site, "Reverse Collapse" doesn't really mean anything, and isn't even recognizable as obviously being connected to GFL. Most people coming here to look at the guns they think are hot are going to be very confused by a new name for a series that almost everyone knows as "Girls' Frontline."
CoreMack said:
I'm also against using Reverse Collapse as the umbrella tag. Sure, maybe it makes perfect sense to someone who is extremely deep into the lore (like Damian), but to a casual player, like me or most of the users of this site, "Reverse Collapse" doesn't really mean anything, and isn't even recognizable as obviously being connected to GFL. Most people coming here to look at the guns they think are hot are going to be very confused by a new name for a series that almost everyone knows as "Girls' Frontline."
This wasn't an issue for Tolkien's legendarium nor Avatar Legends, both of which use series names that most casual enjoyers of either properties would not be familiar with whatsoever. Would you argue that they be changed to The Lord of the Rings (series) and Avatar: The Last Airbender (series)? Hell, one of the times we followed Wikipedia's lead on a series name, Ultra Series (abandoning Ultraman (copyright)), was later changed there to be Ultraman in 2021, despite also including the lesser talked-about Ultra Q shows from which Ultraman ultimately spawned from, and they still call it the Ultra Series in the article's starting paragraph, just as the Japanese do! And I imagine in Japan the Ultra Series is also more commonly referred to as the Ultraman series despite Ultra Series being the proper terminology, so should we also change it to Ultraman (series) (per ウルトラマンシリーズ, which the copyright owner has themselves also used)?
And then there's an element I think those opposed to 'Reverse Collapse' have failed to consider, and that is how much overarching series tags for franchises like these actually get searched. The reason why it has been proposed is solely to allow for a separation of the individual games. No one's searching for Tolkien's legendarium, they are searching for The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit; no one's searching for Avatar Legends, but for Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, same goes for the Wizarding World relative to Harry Potter (series), and Honkai (series) relative to Honkai: Star Rail and Honkai Impact 3rd. The vast majority of overarching series tags like these exist only to enable cleaner tagging, so whether or not it has a name a casual or not recognizes isn't as important. My proposal, as mentioned, also has an additional potential boon of providing a qualifier that's unambiguously different from the individual game names for reoccuring characters, which would be useful if we end up going down the path of having individual chartags for each game per forum #321451, especially for skins (compare dushevnaya_(reverse_collapse) with ksvk_(girls'_frontline) and dushevnaya_(girls'_frontline_2), versus the same but with dushevnaya_(girls'_frontline) and ksvk_(girls'_frontline_1), since using Girls' Frontline as the series name, in my eyes, inevitably requires changing the first game to girls'_frontline_1 to minimize ambiguity, following precedent in topics like topic #29664).
Damian0358 said:
This wasn't an issue for Tolkien's legendarium nor Avatar Legends, both of which use series names that most casual enjoyers of either properties would not be familiar with whatsoever.
Just because people didn't take issue with one tag doesn't mean people are going to take issue with another tag. Danbooru has a wide collection of users, whom some may only take part in certain fandoms, so they may not be interested in how others copyrights get tagged. Sidenote, I would be in favor of making Avatar Legends into A:TLA_(series).
The reason why it has been proposed is solely to allow for a separation of the individual games.
Then it doesn't matter if it's called "Girls' Frontline (series)". If we have to make a follow-up BUR to decrease supposed ambiguity, so be it.
I'm of the opinion that GFL takes precedence over Reverse Collapse, primarily because the Reverse Collapse: Codname Bakery (2024) was made with GFL1's more detailed and etablished lore in mind, while the original Codename: Bakery Girl (2013) is arguably more used as a donor for GFL's world and narrative foundations.
It also really doesn't help that Neural Cloud's full name is Girls' Frontline: Neural Cloud, not Reverse Collapse: Neural Cloud. Same for Girls' Frontline 2: Exilium.
I don't think people are arguing that Reverse Collapse or Bakery Girl aren't important, but they don't command the subcultural power that GFL created in 2016, much less the lore that people tend to primarily refer to.
Like, if the argument is that GFL was spawned from Codename: Bakery Girl (2013) and the importance of Reverse Collapse: Codename Bakery (2024), so it should be called Reverse Collapse because of it, then couldn't it be argued that "The Girl from the Bakehouse" (2009) would be a preferable due to the fact that it is the oldest known piece of media that was the foundation the Codename Bakery games?
I think that changing the GFL tags for Reverse Collapse doesn't help people find what they're looking for, and as important as they are, they're much smaller parts to the GFL universe/narrative.
sachiotakli said:
Like, if the argument is that GFL was spawned from Codename: Bakery Girl (2013) and the importance of Reverse Collapse: Codename Bakery (2024), so it should be called Reverse Collapse because of it, then couldn't it be argued that "The Girl from the Bakehouse" (2009) would be a preferable due to the fact that it is the oldest known piece of media that was the foundation the Codename Bakery games?
That's missing why I advocated for the usage of Reverse Collapse as the series name. If it was only used as part of the title for Codename: Bakery Girl's remake, then there'd be no point to it, that'd be way too confusing. The phenomena was first brought up in the original Codename: Bakery Girl's Secret Documents back in 2013 (though in fan circles it was referred to as both Counter Collapse and Reverse Collapse, until the latter was established as the proper translation), and then utilized in the title of the announced remake back in 2018, before finally being brought up in Chapter 13 of Girls' Frontline, which released in May 2020, to ultimately explain what happens to M4, Elisa and M16 at the end of the Paldiski Incident, and the first two would be surrounded by the mystery of what happened to them after, which wouldn't be resolved until earlier this year with the story event Cartesian Theatre. This isn't even so much deep lore as it is just paying attention to the ongoing story, which I sure as hell know the GFL regulars who've voted do.
The Reverse Collapse phenomena is what ultimately ties everything together (just as Tolkien's legendarium is tied together by a bunch of nerds extrapolating Tolkien referring to his body of work as 'his legendarium'), and is likely why MICA kept referring to a "Reverse Collapse series," after they reannounced the remake during GFL's 4th anniversary livestream (the same month as GFL Chapter 13), since it is a more neutral title that they could use for future non-gacha single player games set in this world. MICA themselves have chosen to do this, with GFL itself just being a specific segment in it, focusing on the plight of the Dolls and the Commander. Hell, the Girls' Frontline title itself isn't wholly consistent, given how they stuck with Dolls' Frontline in Japan as opposed to Shoujo Zensen (with the effects of that being felt in GFL2 with the JP voices), since it's far too late there to switch to Shoujo Zensen even if they might've gotten the JP trademark back.
sachiotakli said:
I think that changing the GFL tags for Reverse Collapse doesn't help people find what they're looking for, and as important as they are, they're much smaller parts to the GFL universe/narrative.
The main GFL tags aren't themselves being changed though. Searchability wouldn't be impacted by having Reverse Collapse as the chosen series name here.
The bulk update request #34528 (forum #322505) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
BUR #36129 has been approved by @evazion.
create implication girls'_frontline_neural_cloud -> girls'_frontline
create implication girls'_frontline_2:_exilium -> girls'_frontline
For now I'll stick with the status quo, which is to treat Girls' Frontline as the umbrella tag for the series. All Girls' Frontline 2: Exilium and Girls' Frontline Neural Cloud posts are currently tagged Girls' Frontline anyway, so there's no change in how posts are actually tagged.
I'm reluctant to go with Reverse Collapse (series) as there doesn't seem to be agreement on calling it that, and I don't want to go with a name that's unfamiliar to people or that will have to be changed later if a different official name comes out.
I'm reluctant to go with Girls' Frontline (series) because it's too confusing to have both Girls' Frontline and Girls' Frontline (series) as tags. At a minimum we'd have to rename Girls' Frontline to Girls' Frontline 1. But then there's the problem that it's hard to tell whether something is GFL1 or GFL2, since GFL2 has a lot of returning characters that look basically the same.
I also don't like having a tag that's 95% the first game. The only benefit to this would be being able to search for content specifically from the first game, but GFL1 and GFL2 have so much overlap that that doesn't appear to be useful. Maybe that will change as we get more GFL2 posts.
We can revisit this if an official name for the series emerges later.
The bulk update request #36129 (forum #333019) has been approved by @evazion.
The bulk update request #34712 (forum #323288) has been rejected by @evazion.
Well, that settles that for the time being then. At least this reflects the decision taken for GFL2 chartags in topic #26129 and forum #332294 earlier this past week.
See you all in another year or two, as the franchise develops post-GFL2 global release and we see where they take things such as Project N.E.T. and whether they'll mention anything more about Reverse Collapse in the context of game titles (i.e. folks hoping for a sequel to Code Name Bakery or just another single player game in this universe).
