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Cataloguing Limbus/Project moon E.G.O and Identities

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sinfulporcupine

not an identity/e.g.o, but it's still about project moon, so i figure it's better ask here than make a new topic that would get easily lost:

is there a tag for the robot forms of the sephirah (is that the spelling? the lobotomy corporation wiki uses both and i have yet to play the game for myself)? like in post #8642962 sitting on the knee of his human form

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sinfulporcupine

is that her crow-like design, or is there another design i'm not aware of (i'm only about halfway through ruina)? it appears right in the beginning of the game, so it's not necessary to spoiler it.

the artbook seems to call it a "crow suit":

Angela’s crow outfit didn’t quite suit the ambience of a library. So I
asked for several sketches in order to give her an outfit that suits the
librarian theme while still maintaining some design elements of the
crow suit. Multiple hair and clothing drafts came up, and it took a
while for us to decide on the final design

as for the robots, do they have any special name as a whole?

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evazion

sinning said:

BUR #34667 has been approved by @evazion.

deprecate zwei_association_(identity)_(project_moon)
mass update ~favgroup:38911 ~(zwei_association_(identity)_(project_moon) date:<=2024-07-01) -> zwei_association_south_(identity)_(project_moon)
mass update favgroup:38912 -> zwei_association_west_(identity)_(project_moon)

while they're the same faction, its sub-groups differ in designs a lot

  • south members wear regular outerwear in their pre-uptie artworks that vary from character to character, and a more modern-looking combat clothes with a blue coat in their post-uptie artworks and battle sprites,
  • west members are simply knights

compare:

Cinq Association (Identity) (project moon) has South and West sections too, does it need to be split up also?

This whole Identities thing is really confusing to me. These tags are apparently basically shared outfit tags. But each one has 5-10 different characters, and none of the characters list which Identities they can use in their wikis, so it's a nightmare trying to figure out which tag to use. A character like Ishmael has like nine different identities, but none of them are listed in her wiki, so good luck figuring out which tag to use. It seems like we'd be better off with character_(outfit) chartags like most other franchises have. At the very least, each character needs to have example images of each Identity they can use in their wiki.

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sinfulporcupine

evazion said:

This whole Identities thing is really confusing to me. These tags are apparently basically shared outfit tags. But each one has 5-10 different characters [...]

i'm not quite opposed to the character tag approach. however, the problem with identities is that some are simply uniforms belonging to a specific group, some are, for simplicity's sake, cosplays* of more customized non-playable characters, and some can be called completely unique to the playable characters in question

another problem is that the identity tags are sometimes used for characters that don't have playable units with that identity, for instance post #8775929 is tagged with dieci association (identity) (project_moon), though neither of the don quixotes is shown belonging to that faction in canon. this is partially because "identity" is not only limbus company's term for "playable unit", but also in general for "a version of a character from an alternate timeline". we see some canon non-playable identities of playable characters and non-playable characters alike

Cinq Association (Identity) (project moon) has South and West sections too, does it need to be split up also?

cinq, similarly to zwei, has different outfits depending on the section, however as of right now there aren't any characters that would have identities in both sections. i'm not sure what to do about it

*more accurately to the game's lore: identities are a version of any given character pulled from a "mirror world" (alternate timeline). in that timeline, that character lives a different life from the counterpart we normally encounter. this might involve them taking the role of another character in that world

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sinning said:

cinq, similarly to zwei, has different outfits depending on the section, however as of right now there aren't any characters that would have identities in both sections. i'm not sure what to do about it

I would say to follow the in-game Identity "tags" (example). When they get updated in-game, we update them too.

evazion said:

Cinq Association (Identity) (project moon) has South and West sections too, does it need to be split up also?

Eventually yes.

These tags are apparently basically shared outfit tags. But each one has 5-10 different characters, and none of the characters list which Identities they can use in their wikis, so it's a nightmare trying to figure out which tag to use.

At this point I feel like it would be faster to link to something like the wiki's list of characters' identities
However that doesn't solve the issue that sinning raised:

another problem is that the identity tags are sometimes used for characters that don't have playable units with that identity [...] this is partially because "identity" is not only limbus company's term for "playable unit", but also in general for "a version of a character from an alternate timeline". we see some canon non-playable identities of playable characters and non-playable characters alike

Taking a recent example:
Last year there was an event focusing on the Blade Lineage and Kurokumo Clan factions.
All characters got a related identity (refer to Blade Lineage (Identity) and Kurokumo Clan (Identity)), (except Heathcliff and Ishmael, leaving two vacant spots in the Kurokumo side).
However, people started speculating on what faction the characters were going to be featured in, long before their reveal. post #7123010, for instance, features Ishmael on the Blade Lineage side and Faust on the Kurokumo side, while officially it's the other way around.
And even after that, people have drawn fanmade identities (post #8045782 features Kurokumo Faust and Meursault, while their official identities would be Blade Lineage)

All of this to say that, for Project Moon, tagging has to be somewhat "freeform".
Writing down official identities in the character wiki can only help so far - they wouldn't feature the many exceptions that are fanmade identities.
Similarly, using character tags for identities would be hellish - I cannot think of a way to tag characters depicted in unofficial identities that wouldn't result in the tag count becoming bloated.
It doesn't help that some NPCs get a similar treatment (post #8727781, for instance.)

This is why the gentag Identity solution is, in my opinon, an excellent way to handle this. I'm not going to say that it's the best, I am always open to other suggestions, but using character tags for identities is a solution that ignores half of the problem.

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sinfulporcupine

to continue on the topic of identities, i think what further complicates matters is that an earlier instalment in the series, library of ruina, also features a system that allows one to view a character in someone else's clothing, namely the "appearance projection" system. here are examples of how that system works: netzach with sayo's page, netzach with julia's page, netzach with isadora's page, malkuth with sayo's page, malkuth with dino's page, malkuth with olga's page

unlike limbus company, where those other outfits (identities) are always tied to a specific playable character from the very beginning, dictating the unit's combat capabilities, LoR's appearance projection system is not only purely cosmetic, it also allows for any obtained costume (costumes are obtainable through battling characters, and are directly named after their owners - if you defeat lenny, you have a chance to obtain "lenny's page", which for tagging argument's sake can be understood as "lenny's outfit") to be placed on any playable character (both pre-made story-relevant characters and fully customizable nuggets)

appearance projections, naturally, are not as popular in fanart as identities, and it appears they have been predominantly dealt with using classic cosplay tags. an example would be post #7836040, where three playable characters wear clothes of meow, an enemy whose costume is available through the appearance projection system. and this is rather simple with depictions that are strictly limited to library of ruina's characters. however, people sometimes draw characters from other instalments, such as limbus company, cosplaying characters from library of ruina (which also has a reflection in limbus company's official identities, as some are based off library of ruina's characters, such as molar_office_(identity)_(project_moon), however it is also present in fully original, fanart-only instances of cosplay). an example would be post #7373846, in which ishmael, a limbus company character, cosplays as isadora, a library of ruina character. because isadora is a part of zwei association south, this illustration also received the zwei association south (identity) (project moon) tag, however it is not ishmael's official appearance as a member of said association, as that would be post #7169828, which does not seem to be based off any specific character but rather completely exclusive to ishmael - it simply indeed is a cosplay of an independent character who also happens to be a member of zwei association south

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sinfulporcupine

BUR #38146 is pending approval.

create alias eastern_cinq_association_(identity)_(project_moon) -> cinq_association_east_(identity)_(project_moon)

the more i think about it, the less i like our current approach to tagging limbus uniforms, namely that technicalities of what "identity" means forbid us from using what are basically uniform tags (not that different from school uniforms in series focusing on students) on characters that wear said uniforms in the "main" timeline, yet allow random non-canon cosplays... i dread what might happen to our tagging if we ever get to see the sinners borrowing or stealing uniforms from a faction for infiltration (without using the identity system) in canon

nevertheless... someone already made the tag for cinq east, so it should be standardized. technically the unit's name is "Cinq East Section 3 Don Quixote", skipping the word "association", but it appears our standard has been to use the word association there

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sinfulporcupine

BUR #38150 is pending approval.

create implication ishmael_(the_pequod)_(project_moon) -> ishmael_(project_moon)
create implication ishmael_(district_21_resident)_(project_moon) -> ishmael_(project_moon)
create implication ishmael_(identity_archive)_(project_moon) -> ishmael_(project_moon)

these are not e.g.o or identities, but rather different outfits she wears as a part of the story
the first two names stem from "role" tags paired with ishmael during those story segments, as can be seen here: https://limbuscompany.wiki.gg/wiki/Into_the_Dark/Floor_3#Mid-Battle_2
the last one is named after the identity archive, a mechanic that allows the player to listen to an identity's voicelines and read its story. the main menu of that mechanic features portraits of all 12 playable sinners, and most of them wear unique costumes there

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