The rifle is fine.

BUR #31016 has been rejected.

create alias kalashnikov_rifle -> rifle
remove implication ak-47 -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication type_56_assault_rifle -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication akm -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication zastava_m70 -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication ak-74 -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication aks-74u -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication ak-74m -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication zastava_m21 -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication ots-12_tiss -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication ak-102 -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication ak-107 -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication ak-12 -> kalashnikov_rifle
remove implication ak-15 -> kalashnikov_rifle

In response to forum #190816.

evazion said:
I'm not thrilled with implications like this because the gun hierarchy is ridiculously deep:

• weapon
• gun
• rifle
• assault rifle
• AK-47

Now with Kalashnikov rifle, it means tagging a post with AK-47 will add 5 other tags. Gun tags have a bad tag amplification problem, where every time you tag a specific model of gun, four or five extra tags get added.

forum #237887

nonamethanks said:
I see no point in having umbrella tag like these for guns. Even something like Kalashnikov rifle was a mistake IMO.

A potentially controversial topic. At first I strongly disagreed with both statements in pedantic manner, but after some considerations I think our admins actually did make great points. It turns out that I found many complicated issues with this umbrella tag, such as:

• While most people can recognize a weapon being an AK by its external appearance, this doesn't apply to guns that look like AKs but mechanically unrelated. Such as the Vz. 58 and Dragunov SVD.
• This tag only apply for rifles that are direct AK derivatives, but they are communist-bloc weapons like the Chinese Type 56 and East German MPi-KM.
• While these rifles truly adopt the Kalashnikov design, this tag do not apply because these are not considered as direct or licensed copies of the Soviet AK. Even when they externally look like AKs. Such as IMI Galil and Finnish Rk62.
• It does not even become an implication for the post-Soviet-designed OTs-14 Groza, despite it was based on the bullpup AKS-74U, but it does not look like conventional AKs anymore.
• Looking back at rejected topic #22860, this tag moderately bothered me because the fact there are numerous guns with AK-based mechanism such as the Saiga-12 shotgun, RPK light machine gun, PP-19 Bizon SMG and PSL Romak sniper rifle - this tag was created exclusively for rifles as the name already implies.
• We can generally use AK_* to search most models.

Nevertheless, I don't think straight up deprecating or nuking this is not a desirable option.

I don't think it makes sense to use kalashnikov rifle in this way — related discussion of hardware in topic #28304, topic #17199. Should it not be used as a general tag when a specific model is unidentifiable?

Consider that many (perhaps even most) artists draw a gun notionally, where it's not possible, or improper, to tag it as a specific model, sometimes portions of the weapon can be obscured such that, while a Kalashnikov of some sort is recognisable, one can't say with certainty if it is, for example, an AK or an AKM — or, in still other cases, an artist might combine different features of specific models into a chimera which is equally untaggable.

With the ar-15 counterpart this is even more acute since, even putting aside artistic liberties, it can take on drastically different guises due to features inherent in the platform — we're not about to start tagging the 'Daniel Defense's, or the 'BCM's, the 'PSA's and so forth, thus the general catch-all is apt.

P.S. The SVD is, admittedly rather loosely, mechanically-related to the AK (but, obviously, a 'Kalashnikov rifle' does not make).

Cpt_Skippy said:

I don't think it makes sense to use Kalashnikov rifle in this way — related discussion of hardware in topic #28304, topic #17199. Should it not be used as a general tag when a specific model is unidentifiable?

Consider that many (perhaps even most) artists draw a gun notionally, where it's not possible, or improper, to tag it as a specific model, sometimes portions of the weapon can be obscured such that, while a Kalashnikov of some sort is recognizable, one can't say with certainty if it is, for example, an AK or an AKM — or, in still other cases, an artist might combine different features of specific models into a chimera which is equally untaggable.

I originally thought catch-all term for visually recognizable rifle type would make sense, but the admins got better things to say.
Yes, that's right. When artists draw guns notionally, they will not be highly accurate to their real world counterpart. So we cannot expect them to recognize what they drawn or mention their model on artist commentaries.

So far, I think existing rifle subtags based on recognizable mechanism and fire mode are more than enough to specify one's search. It should be acceptable not to identify and recognize specific gun model, if it is inaccurately dawn or poorly rendered instead of excessively relying on weapon request. Specific weapon and vehicle names are on the bottom of tag checklist.

With the ar-15 counterpart this is even more acute since, even putting aside artistic liberties, it can take on drastically different guises due to features inherent in the platform — we're not about to start tagging the 'Daniel Defense's, or the 'BCM's, the 'PSA's and so forth, thus the general catch-all is apt.

Regarding the AR-15 as an umbrella tag, it is correctly safe to use as the catch-all term for any AR-15 style rifle, outside the more recignizable M16, HK416 and M4 series - regardless of niche names their respective manufacturers (i.e. Daniel Defense) dubbed. So this should stay and be used instead of making more and more tags for ultra-specific, trivial AR-15 model, which is basically bloating tag count.

The long tag hierarchy is unfortunate but it's just a side effect, and not even a particularly terrible one. This tag is good to have even if its usage could possibly be tweaked due to the aforementioned issues about rifles that technically don't count by our current definition. With the proposed changes, if one wants to see "anime girl with an ak", they'd need to be plat or builder+ and use an absurdly long search. Someone deeply entrenched in the details of firearm history might not generally think this way but it's something a lot of people likely do to try to find a certain aesthetic and images with a certain vibe. To quote forum #304070:

Evazion said:

A regular user is not going to be able to figure that out. Even as an experienced user, it takes time for me to figure out how to formulate the search, and typing in the tags is too much work to actually do. Without a tag you wouldn't even know [how] to search for it...

We can't expect a regular user to figure out which model-specific tags we have, which we don't, and put together a search that exceeds their tag limit. Many users likely aren't even aware that it's possible to do an or search. It's not exactly obvious unless you read the wiki guides.

forum #237887 is a different case because had the different models been kept an umbrella tag could have been effectively emulated using "glock*" due to the consistent naming of the models. That doesn't apply in this case.

FubukiKai said:

We can't expect a regular user to figure out which model-specific tags we have, which we don't, and put together a search that exceeds their tag limit. Many users likely aren't even aware that it's possible to do an or search. It's not exactly obvious unless you read the wiki guides.

forum #237887 is a different case because had the different models been kept an umbrella tag could have been effectively emulated using "glock*" due to the consistent naming of the models. That doesn't apply in this case.

A fair point! ak* certainly doesn't do one much good... though ak-* gets one most of the way there, especially if one is not fussed about the specifics.

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 45 days.

The bulk update request #31016 (forum #305389) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.