Posted under General
岩戸鈴芽 said:
You're even saying it yourself, it's not hiding just for the sake of hiding it, but because there needs to be a split between sfw and nsfw. The nsfw one being hidden from general public view to prevent problems is simply a result of that.
What I meant was that the intent of tagging them is to hide them, but for the greater purpose of warding off trouble. Also that this method wasn't necessarily inevitable, but just the choice albert went with and evazion kept.
Veraducks said:
You're removing it from images like post #7228554, which is at the point of vandalism, IMHO.
I removed it because proportions wise that's a flat teen. Look at the head:body ratio.
Also, has my understanding of how to apply it to rating S posts been incorrect? I thought that it can be applicable, but does not apply automatically e.g. an innocuous swimsuit illustration does not need the loli tag. I constantly see uploaders, even admin level, seemingly follow the same logic.
Hereinafter said:
I removed it because proportions wise that's a flat teen. Look at the head:body ratio.
That post is full on loli, there's nothing more to it really.
Also, has my understanding of how to apply it to rating S posts been incorrect? I thought that it can be applicable, but does not apply automatically e.g. an innocuous swimsuit illustration does not need the loli tag. I constantly see uploaders, even admin level, seemingly follow the same logic.
It doesn't, but if you would tag a post child if it were G, then in a lot of cases (especially in "very S" cases like swimsuits) loli will apply. There'll always be exceptions going either way, which is why you should use common sense instead of going by the tags present on the image.
岩戸鈴芽 said:
That post is full on loli, there's nothing more to it really.
I actually disagree. I can definitely see the argument for post #7228554 being petite. She's clearly taller than she looks, as well, going by her pose.
blindVigil said:
I actually disagree. I can definitely see the argument for post #7228554 being petite. She's clearly taller than she looks, as well, going by her pose.
Hereinafter said:
Can you specify why?
Only her height is slightly on the taller side, but the rest of the body proportions (head, breasts, hip area) are pretty loli. I don't like saying it because it's way too often used as a cop-out, but in cases where there's one aspect that makes it slightly borderline, taking the safe route won't hurt.
岩戸鈴芽 said:
Only her height is slightly on the taller side, but the rest of the body proportions (head, breasts, hip area) are pretty loli. I don't like saying it because it's way too often used as a cop-out, but in cases where there's one aspect that makes it slightly borderline, taking the safe route won't hurt.
In my view that's pretty obviously a skinny teen character that doesn't need the loli tag. If you consider that to be loli then kashihara_noa_(kindatsu) falls under the exact same scope.
Hereinafter said:
In my view that's pretty obviously a skinny teen character that doesn't need the loli tag. If you consider that to be loli then kashihara_noa_(kindatsu) falls under the exact same scope.
Veraducks was wrong to imply this was a clear-cut case, but it's still borderline. I'm also leaning towards no on post #7228554, but I would've at least asked about it in the forums first, especially since the tag was already removed by you and readded once before.
Hereinafter said:
In my view that's pretty obviously a skinny teen character that doesn't need the loli tag. If you consider that to be loli then kashihara_noa_(kindatsu) falls under the exact same scope.
Differences to me are larger breasts, wider hips, taller overall, I don't think these two are comaprable.
Hereinafter said:
In my view that's pretty obviously a skinny teen character that doesn't need the loli tag. If you consider that to be loli then kashihara_noa_(kindatsu) falls under the exact same scope.
Please take pointers for yourself instead of trying to find potential mistags on other user's uploads.
You have engaged in tag war and the concensus is that you have been in the wrong. That's the issue. Adding or leaving off loli on a few cases isn't an actual issue.
Hereinafter said:
Also, has my understanding of how to apply it to rating S posts been incorrect? I thought that it can be applicable, but does not apply automatically e.g. an innocuous swimsuit illustration does not need the loli tag. I constantly see uploaders, even admin level, seemingly follow the same logic.
I would not consider bikini pinups by murata_range to fall under "innocuous swimsuit".
I understand that it's annoying to restrict access to specific images, but - like I've said before - y'all need to stop breakin' out the calipers and bubble levels to fight tooth and nail to say it's a very petite teen instead of a loli for whatever reason. And re-adjust what you see as lewd or not.
Veraducks said:
I would not consider bikini pinups by murata_range to fall under "innocuous swimsuit".
I understand that it's annoying to restrict access to specific images, but - like I've said before - y'all need to stop breakin' out the calipers and bubble levels to fight tooth and nail to say it's a very petite teen instead of a loli for whatever reason. And re-adjust what you see as lewd or not.
Why is it necessary to hide these kind of benign posts from the most common type of site user, especially considering the kind of content they can already view? Why do people here seemingly take such glee in doing so? I don't understand the mindset, it seem so unnecessarily resentful. The way the loli/shota tags are handled has a counterintuitive oldbooru aspect that noone seems to be willing to properly address, it has gotten much worse since the rating changes. You'll struggle to convince me that something like https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/7781858 needs to be hidden from people.
Hereinafter said:
Why is it necessary to hide these kind of benign posts from the most common type of site user, especially considering the kind of content they can already view? Why do people here seemingly take such glee in doing so? I don't understand the mindset, it seem so unnecessarily resentful. The way the loli/shota tags are handled has a counterintuitive oldbooru aspect that noone seems to be willing to properly address, it has gotten much worse since the rating changes. You'll struggle to convince me that something like https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/7781858 needs to be hidden from people.
Evazion has explained numerous times why loli/shota needs to be hidden. I find it hard to believe someone that's been here since 2009 would be oblivious to this.
No one is taking glee in it. I personally find it stupid for multiple reasons, none of which have anything to do with Danbooru or the site owner.
Hereinafter said:
Why is it necessary to hide these kind of benign posts from the most common type of site user, especially considering the kind of content they can already view? Why do people here seemingly take such glee in doing so? I don't understand the mindset, it seem so unnecessarily resentful. The way the loli/shota tags are handled has a counterintuitive oldbooru aspect that noone seems to be willing to properly address, it has gotten much worse since the rating changes. You'll struggle to convince me that something like https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/7781858 needs to be hidden from people.
Open a seperate topic.
Right now, this is the status quo and even you have to follow it, whether you like it or not.
blindVigil said:
Evazion has explained numerous times why loli/shota needs to be hidden.
Could you quote that for me please? I'm relatively new and I've only seen explanations from non-admins ranging from "in order to keep randoms who stumble onto the front page from getting outraged and reporting the site for CP" to "just to get more people to buy Gold".
Veraducks said:
I understand that it's annoying to restrict access to specific images, but - like I've said before - y'all need to stop breakin' out the calipers and bubble levels to fight tooth and nail to say it's a very petite teen instead of a loli for whatever reason. And re-adjust what you see as lewd or not.
If you mean we shouldn't be using one specific aspect to disregard the overall presentation, then I agree. But it goes both ways. I've seen a few posts get tagged when the overall presentation doesn't fit. Maybe because the character is 12 in canon, or one of the younger-looking Blue Archive characters, or something else. I think we all agree that we shouldn't hide more than we have to, and I'm personally more concerned about those posts being wrongfully hidden than the "very petite teens."
To be fair, some of this could just be due to the users not understanding the criteria of the tag. We do sometimes have to remind users that canonical age isn't a determining factor.
We do have to be able to apply some analysis skills to the posts or there wouldn't be much of a point to this thread. We shouldn't obsess over every fine detail, but we do have to put some thought into it.
Applying the above to post #7781858, I'd say the overall presentation might lean a bit toward loli; the character has some breasts, but a pretty childish face. The clothes give somewhat okay coverage, but I can't ignore the fact the shorts look like a pair of panties. And then there's the overall pin-up presentation, which looks mildly fanservicey. I'd argue more strongly against it being loli if the character was doing something less fanservice-oriented such as playing, provided there weren't any suspicious close-ups or anything. So there's more than one piece of evidence against it being loli, but I can't say with complete confidence it's enough to put it in the child-loli gap.
viliml said:
Could you quote that for me please? I'm relatively new and I've only seen explanations from non-admins ranging from "in order to keep randoms who stumble onto the front page from getting outraged and reporting the site for CP" to "just to get more people to buy Gold".
Hereinafter said:
Why is it necessary to hide these kind of benign posts from the most common type of site user, especially considering the kind of content they can already view? Why do people here seemingly take such glee in doing so? I don't understand the mindset, it seem so unnecessarily resentful. The way the loli/shota tags are handled has a counterintuitive oldbooru aspect that noone seems to be willing to properly address, it has gotten much worse since the rating changes. You'll struggle to convince me that something like https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/7781858 needs to be hidden from people.
The only thing that matters when tagging loli/shota is whether the image in question qualifies for loli/shota. Whether or not said image is hidden from regular users has absolutely no bearing on this. It's not some "game" about which posts we should be letting through the cracks for the hungry masses below, it's how the site operates (for good reason) and as such we are to be as objective as possible about it. If you're unable to let go of this mindset then I suggest you start uploading to Gelbooru, where this kind of content is hidden only by an option in your account settings.
https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/8071826?q=uohhhhhhhhh%21_%28meme%29
I saw a debate about this one in the linked thread
https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/5499526
AngryZapdos said:
The only thing that matters when tagging loli/shota is whether the image in question qualifies for loli/shota. Whether or not said image is hidden from regular users has absolutely no bearing on this. It's not some "game" about which posts we should be letting through the cracks for the hungry masses below, it's how the site operates (for good reason) and as such we are to be as objective as possible about it. If you're unable to let go of this mindset then I suggest you start uploading to Gelbooru, where this kind of content is hidden only by an option in your account settings.
No one in this thread is attempting to be objective. It's entirely moment-to-moment and feelings based. A tall flat teenager is loli because someone feels like appealing to "safe routes" while obvious loli characters like https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/8085928 have "too much breast". A lurker without an account can find images of infant animals being violently raped and see loli/shota in media assets anyway. All this talk about safety and essential operation seems like a joke that I'm not in on.
Hereinafter said:
No one in this thread is attempting to be objective. It's entirely moment-to-moment and feelings based. A tall flat teenager is loli because someone feels like appealing to "safe routes" while obvious loli characters like https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/8085928 have "too much breast".
We shouldn't have to point you at the guidelines again just to show you why that linked post is less loli.
A lurker without an account can find images of infant animals being violently raped and see loli/shota in media assets anyway. All this talk about safety and essential operation seems like a joke that I'm not in on.
Complain to evazion instead of actively going against current policy.
