How to go against misusage of tags

Since there has been some mudslinging amongst users, I think it's time to discuss this topic and how feedbacks should be delivered.
What is the correct procedure, when are user elligible to write a feedback and what gets an user disqualified from writing such a feedback.

I think this is a fundemental issue with the site currently, in one way or the other.

Related wiki: help:user records

My personal policy for giving feedback to users that aren't clearly mistagging or breaking the rules on purpose is to send two DMails spaced out by a reasonable amount of time (like a couple weeks or months) before giving a neutral feedback. I link to both messages in the feedback to show I already warned them and say I will change it to a negative if they keep making the same mistake.

I only had to do this once. Most users I DMailed corrected themselves (or let me know I was wrong) after the first one. If it's clear the user is deliberately vandalizing posts (like rerating porn as G), I know they cannot be reasoned with and I give a negative right away so the mods can stop them before they can cause too much damage.

For context: earlier today I deleted the following feedbacks made against @Topsy_Krett, which caused some people on discord to complain about favoritism, and was the reason for the creation of this topic:

and

My reasons for deleting these feedbacks are the following:

• complaining about a post missing a tag for 3 minutes is laughable, especially when put in the light of blacklisting relevance. The last time the data was posted (several years ago) loli was blacklisted in similar numbers as penis or sex, and half as often as futanari, or 1/4th of the time as yaoi, though I'd imagine the gap has only widened since the advent of bara mass uploading. Imagine if people started giving feedbacks for missing penis or sex because of blacklisting reasons. I would have understood if this was about loli being forbidden content or stuff that should be hidden fairly quickly, but this is not about that (read on). The fact that "The most egregious case would've been 8++ minutes untagged." is also telling, mostly because 8 minutes was the worst mistake the user could find when nitpicking a reason to give a negative feedback;
• users don't get to be hypocrites and try to have another user banned for something they themselves are doing. if an user accuses another user of something in a negative feedback and then they do the same thing, there's two options: either they're negged in turn, or the feedback they gave is deleted. I don't want to see people giving feedbacks for not properly tagging loli when it takes me 10 seconds to find examples of the same behavior in their uploads (examples that I provided on discord to the user that gave the first feedback after they claimed that @Topsy_Krett had "gotten away with it").

I want to point out that a certain group of users has been seemingly actively trying over the past few months to get Topsy_Krett banned over various reasons. Lately this has been the perceived misuse of loli vs petite, while conveniently ignoring the dozens of other contributors and 10k posts under petite -loli is:nsfw that somehow don't pose a problem when not uploaded by the user in question. It seems this kind of concern trolling regarding the loli tag started after their previous attempt at getting him banned for mintagging (which @Unbreakable also noticed) didn't work, as that was not against the rules.
In particular, the second feedback was given by a user who had come under the belief that loli was one of the most blacklisted tags on the site during discussions about Topsy's usage of loli vs petite (this cluelessness on the topic at hand became evident after a brief discussion on discord). It's really hard for me not to see this as a really pathetic attempt at gaslighting random users into giving Topsy a feedback for irrelevant reasons.

I banned Topsy a year ago for spamming related tags and misusing loli, but he has since significantly improved, and given his volume of uploads it's only expected that he would make a few mistakes every once in a while. Mistakes which, I want to point out, he typically fixes within minutes.
To see this kind of cherry picking on one or two mistagged posts over THOUSANDS of them, committed by people who then not only ignore dozens of other users doing the same, but even commit the exact same mistakes, is baffling. To see it against someone who is trying to improve, and for such a petty reason, is infuriating.

And since this is a wall of text and the people in question are just going to reply with "no u", let's have a fun look at the numbers because I got annoyed at this enough that I had to look at the details.

The following are the posts by the user in question where loli was added by someone else after upload , uploaded after I gave them a warning about being more cautious with the loli tag last year.

That's 42 posts out of 11.5k uploads in the same period (date:>2023-11-15 user:Topsy_Krett), and 454 loli uploads. 42 posts out of 454 is 10% of applicable posts where the tag was missing and added to someone else. Pretty bad, right? Well, it becomes a lot less worse when you realize that half the posts are either old posts that got 1upped and didn't have the loli tag for 7 years, or had builders edit warring with other users, or had the tag added after mintagging, when it would've been added by the user in question immediately after upload otherwise (whether you think that should be against the rules doesn't change the fact that it's not and never has been), or is stuff that a lot of users including builders and approvers still wouldn't tag loli (illyasviel_von_einzbern (french_kiss or saliva_trail) -rating:e loli has half the results of illyasviel_von_einzbern (french_kiss or saliva_trail) -rating:e -loli), or is stuff even I would be on the fence about.

I count 21 posts where there was none of that stuff going on, and 5 of them in the last 2 months. He uploaded 2832 uploads under the same period. That's nitpicking. You are punishing an user for something everyone does with impunity, including users that should be setting an example. How can you justify giving someone a negative feedback over this when we have approvers edit warring over these posts? (1, 2)

Anyway, I have pinged him in this topic so that he may defend himself instead of being the subject of shittalking without being able to clap back.

Since NNT seemed especially pissed about the second one, I'll go ahead and say that one was mine. I have no business in actively wanting to see someone get banned and I don't know many people here well enough to form such opinions but I realise that negative was a bit silly. The issue had already been fixed fast whether or not it was by himself, and I don't have anything useful to pitch in the discussion or behind my reasoning. All I want to do is archive some anime pictures I like but there are some non-uploading things that I should just generally not be around anymore.

I apologise that I wasn't more prudent in determining if the feedback was appropriate to assign or not, especially it being a negative, since the issue wasn't actually as bad as the feedback made it seem, and especially given the data that I was previously unaware of. It wasn't my intention to nitpick or anything but trying to explain myself here is pointless. A stupid decision is a stupid decision, I've made a ton of those, gotten raked over the coals and I've never found there to be any point in saying anything other than "I fucked up", period, and then making changes in my use of the site for the future.

I didn't participate in the discussion on the Discord similarly because I felt I had nothing useful to say, and did not feel particularly comfortable contributing to that discussion after a specific comment regarding how me being in the Discord led me to, paraphrasing, get programmed into getting upset over nonsense. Though it's not wrong; sometimes I've found myself caring too much about certain things, including getting a Contributor promotion, that I really shouldn't be. Also, anything regarding tagging beyond adding them to posts is a headache I want to stay out of.

The only thing I can say here before stepping out is sorry for not being more prudent about the negative feedback. I will be more careful about how I send out negatives for both Topsy and any other user on the site and try cooling off regarding things that are not worth getting upset over.

ETA: To quickly vindicate myself: I did not participate in the feedback war. I do however snipe posts for things I really like, even for niche artists and copyrights. Sometimes an artist that only I'm uploading gets invaded by a power uploader and I don't complain but it does prompt me to try outsniping them because I don't want to shuffle niches and fake taste every time something I like that doesn't have any uploaders starts getting taken by power uploaders. I literally have a favgroup for all the times I've gotten sniped or saw something I wanted to upload instead, and have them all favourited or upvoted. I also have given a positive multiple people who have sniped a lot of things I wanted. I have zero business in witchhunting snipers.

Having read the chatlogs, I do find it a bit odd that a revenge feedback sent without prior DM communication went (seemingly) unpunished, while it generally gets drilled into people's heads to always DM first in cases like this, before even sending a neutral (let alone a negative). I believe Provence mentioned this too.

Regarding the tagging general, I know it's current site policy and all, but the prevalence of mintagging (and 15-20 still being considered "fast enough") leading to good portions of the front page being untagged does strike me as weird when tagging is such a fundamental part of the site. Mind you, personally I am not too affected, since my blacklist is pretty lightweight and I don't spend much time staring at the front page, but I can see people getting very annoyed at the front page just being unusable for them. There's definitely people who just use this as a cover to complain about being sniped themselves, which is annoying, but that shouldn't be used to disregard all the arguments.

I do find Topsy generally adds a good amount of accurate tags in a timely manner when I come across a newly uploaded post of theirs, but that's just my experience.

Edit: typo, thanks to @John_Fantasy_XIV for waiting for the edit grace period to pass so it shows that I edited this message.

岩戸鈴芽 said:

I know it's current site policy and all, but the prevalence of mintagging (and 15-20 still being considered "fast enough") leading to good portions of the front page being untagged does strike me as weird when tagging is such a fundamental part of the site.

The real problem here, which Provence mentioned in his OP, is that a certain circle of more competitive users are letting their personal distaste for things like mintagging (despite doing it themselves) excessively impact how they interact with the site. I agree that the revenge feedback should receive more than a deletion, such as a proper admonishment, because due process exists for a reason. However, I also believe that things never would have escalated to that point if they hadn't been prompted by an equally subversive feedback in the first place.

Mintagging, and particularly ugly symptoms like untagged loli on the front page certainly make us look bad, but that's not exactly breaking news. Searches like ai:loli -loli, copyrights like Blue Archive, and even those petite combinations NNT cited have been problems for years. They potentially span tens of thousands of posts and serve the exact same capacity as a minefield for the unaware that the front page does, if not worse because once something vanishes into the depths of Danbooru, it's 99% less likely to be noticed and fixed.

Danbooru may be volunteer-only, but if some of said volunteers have the time to regularly engage in mortal combat like this on a daily basis, and then spend even more time squabbling in feedbacks when they happen to lose a post, it brings to question why all that effort can't just be directed towards fixing the more pertinent issue instead.

I didn't want to write anything here since the topic is done for me but I'm seeing something here that I don't like at all.

You brush away every valid criticism towards this one certain user because you assume people are just salty for getting sniped or want to get someone banned when in reality some are just sick of the same guy doing the same mistakes over and over again despite various communication attempts having been made to help this user to improve. The most glaring topic was loli, since it is a common blacklist tag, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. I already told nnt everything I have to say regarding this user on the discord channel and why I thought my feedback was justified, so if anyone is curious they can read it up there.

Now, an entirely different matter which I won't let go is something else that was already brought up here: how is possible that a user can send a blatant revenge feedback, that kickstarted an hour long discussion where users got a bit too heated at times, and not only get away with it unpunished but actually got rewarded for it because all their recent negatives feedbacks got deleted in the process as well? I don't believe in favoritsm from nnt towards anyone, but I do think he made a mistake here. The topic of this forum is "how to go against misusage of tags" and the feedbacks that may result in this. Certainly, sending revenge feedbacks without any prior attempt at communication (he just could have sent me a DM if he felt attacked) should be pretty high on the list of how NOT to handle this topic.

123kid said:

You brush away every valid criticism towards this one certain user because you assume people are just salty for getting sniped or want to get someone banned when in reality some are just sick of the same guy doing the same mistakes over and over again despite various communication attempts having been made to help this user to improve. The most glaring topic was loli, since it is a common blacklist tag, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. I already told nnt everything I have to say regarding this user on the discord channel and why I thought my feedback was justified, so if anyone is curious they can read it up there.

As the ban page shows I don't shy away from banning builders when they actually deserve it.
Your feedback was for mistagging loli. I checked and there were 5 mistagged loli posts in the last two months. That's not worth giving a feedback over, any more than it's worth giving it to you or me for making the same mistakes. It certainly isn't worth a ban.

Now, an entirely different matter which I won't let go is something else that was already brought up here: how is possible that a user can send a blatant revenge feedback, that kickstarted an hour long discussion where users got a bit too heated at times, and not only get away with it unpunished but actually got rewarded for it because all their recent negatives feedbacks got deleted in the process as well? I don't believe in favoritsm from nnt towards anyone, but I do think he made a mistake here. The topic of this forum is "how to go against misusage of tags" and the feedbacks that may result in this. Certainly, sending revenge feedbacks without any prior attempt at communication (he just could have sent me a DM if he felt attacked) should be pretty high on the list of how NOT to handle this topic.

You keep bringing up favoritism, so I'll keep bringing up hypocrisy. Why did you give that user a feedback over something you yourself keep doing? Case 1, Case 2. You said in discord that you didn't know onee-shota doesn't imply shota and you thought the other was petite instead of loli. Topsy provided the same explanation when I asked him about some of his posts months ago. He also complained about people switching his loli tagging back to petite, which left him more confused than before and unable to actually tell which posts should be switched. I already provided examples of even approvers reverting loli tagging under his posts.
If your justifications over your mistagging are valid, then so are his. The rules apply to every user in the same way, not just to the people you don't like.

You keep bringing up favoritism, so I'll keep bringing up hypocrisy.

I literally said this isn‘t the case here. What on earth are you on about?

The rules apply to every user in the same way, not just to the people you don't like.

Again putting words in my mouth I never said. This site isn‘t important enough for me to have strong feelings towards anyone here.

Why did you give that user a feedback over something you yourself keep doing?

I told you thrice already why I thought the feedback was valid. You disagree. Fine. I accepted that the first time as I told you so why do you keep coming after me?

Honestly you‘re the only one here who seems to indulge himself into some kind of fantasy world where a group of users have come together to get another one banned and that is straight up bullshit and I‘m getting tired of having to entertain that fantasy.

This all could have been avoided if either Topsy had just sent me a mail first or, sorry when I say that now, if you had communicated in any way that you‘re actually dealing with the problem instead of going „oh, I was actually already thinking about what to do“ or „I already talked to Topsy in DMs“ AFTER things escalated.

Honestly for the last 12 hours you‘re throwing shit at me for stuff others did first. Why single me out? I was only one out of three who gave him a feedback. Because I actually responded to your ranting? I‘m not your lightning rod to deviate your apparent annoyance that some prominent users acted out of line in recent past. But this is off-topic now.

If you have issues with anything I said or did, send me a DM. I won‘t talk about this in public anymore. The guy is honestly not worth the time nor do I want to continue to antagonize you.

Because you keep trying to set yourself as the victim and framing this to make it seem like you weren't the one who struck first. You gave an invalid feedback, you received an invalid feedback in response, you started complaining about the feedback you got while ignoring why it was given to you. When both were deleted you started complaining about that too and claiming that Topsy got preferential treatment. You kept claiming that he "got away with it". If you expect me to stay silent in the face of this you're going to have a really bad time.

I feel like feedbacks are pretty pointless, it only serves to let others pile up on the positives/negatives a user has and form a preconceived image of them for other people that doesn't seem to go away. Bad tagging behaviors should be DMed about and then reported to mods if they are not changed.

If this is the stance a handful of other users in the discord/danbooru dm groups have taken on me, there isn't a thing I can say that will make them change their minds regarding my activity or understand these issues from my point of view after all this time. I was extremely hesitant about even entering this discussion since I felt there’s just no pleasing anyone no matter what I chose to do. This will either be seen as a golden opportunity for other users to lay in to me for past infractions I’m STILL trying to make improvements on, or they’ll know I was made aware of this topic but am being irresponsible for not trying to explain my side of things. But honestly, it’s already felt like there’s been no pleasing anyone on this site for a long while now as I’m still seen as either being unreceptive to feedback or I somehow have a refusal to make use of the dms for discussion.

I couldn’t just leave this topic alone when I noticed it became more explosive when someone else was finally willing to bat for me. So while I’ll try to address some of the most recent complaints vouched against me to my knowledge, I doubt I’m going to engage this topic any further beyond this since I don’t have the time or patience for that. People can complain that plenty other users practically live on this site with the frequency they post on here, but nobody on this forum should have the time or patience for this; we all have our own lives outside this website…

-I continue trying to prioritize my newly uploaded duplicates as parents
-I'm somehow one of this site's biggest offenders when it comes to mistagging loli/not tagging loli content at all
-My recent feedback against another user was a simple case of vengeful feedback posting
-I can't be bothered to read dms or answer any sent my way regarding these sorts of issues

Point 1: I’m willing to admit the upload of frequent duplicates was a far bigger issue on my side of things in years past and was very rightfully criticized for it by moderators. While I felt at the time that the website’s duplicate wikis didn’t give users enough info for what constituted the upload of new parent posts (namely what the minimal file size difference for new parent posts should be provided both images shared the same dimensions), that still feels like I’m looking for excuses.
The implementation of the NNTbot account a few years ago however has been very helpful on that front. It outright labels posts as either being the inferior pixel-perfect variety before they’re uploaded, or any listed as normal dupes likely meet the requirements to be new parents provided they are of noticeably larger file size, image dimensions, or have revised changes to them.
If a new post is uploaded by me nowadays and it’s listed as a new parent, I’ve at least tried to make an effort to compare it to previous posts to be very sure they meet either of the criteria I just listed.

Point 2: The tagging of loli content is unquestionably the biggest criticism being made against me nowadays. I’ve tried to be as receptive to all complaints regarding this as I could possibly be: that as a heavily blacklisted tag, qualifying posts need to be tagged as swiftly as possible, and to read up on the distinction between petite and loli posts to tag them correctly since both tags have their own dedicated wikis.
Me being held to a significantly higher standard to other users because of what I assume is my comparatively larger upload count seems rather unfair as posts by plenty of other users that may qualify for the loli tag aren’t labeled as such, or there are constant tag edits on those posts either switching out or removing the loli tag.
Before this point is seen as me pulling a case of whataboutism, I feel the userbase has seemed incredibly indecisive about what qualifies as loli content mostly due to a character’s canonical age not being a factor if I understand the loli wiki’s example correctly: where despite a character being many years old, if a character is depicted as underage/child-like in either appearance or mannerisms, it likely qualifies as such.
While I certainly agree for the most part, I try to find some sort of middle ground by using my familiarity with some of these copyrights. These are just some of the most immediate examples I can think to use, but I personally feel that NSFW content of small-bodied FGO characters like Shuten, Benienma, and Habetrot would’t usually qualify as loli since the source material doesn’t infantilize either of them. Shuten displays hedonistic tendencies, and I very much remember all three depicted as drinking and hanging with their own circle of adult friends that don’t treat them like children. Yet in terms of needing to tag R18 content featuring these characters, they are commonly lowered to the same standard as actual child characters.
So either my familiarity with certain copyrights doesn’t matter since a small-bodied adult/mini-person was “incorrectly” labeled as petite instead of loli, or examples of characters that either act like children or are straight up kids have their appropriate loli tags switched out for petite. The edits made to m-da s-tarou’s posts this past year or two are a good example of that. Of their frequently drawn characters, while arguments could be made for characters like Euryale and Stheno not counting as lolis, I personally feel that illustrations featuring the Prisma Illya trio and Jack the Ripper at the very least should have retained the loli tags placed on them.

Point 3: I highly doubt the issue would have changed for the better if the recent negative feedback I left for another user yesterday was either placed as a neutral instead or if it was discussed in the dms beforehand. What exactly happened the last time I left a critical feedback on someone’s account as a simple neutral record? The LastNemu fiasco persisted, what with their constant sending of antagonistic messages and all. While an admin was made aware of their problem habits, and while I certainly didn’t expect immediate action to be taken since the admin team is likely busy with many other things, what was especially disappointing was apparent talks on discord that criticized my neutral feedback to LastNemu as being a targeted case just because they focused on uploading dupes related to some of my posts (that criticism applied to their dupes of plenty of other users’ parent posts by the way). But hey, who gives a toss about my criticism with other users? Nemu only started becoming an issue to them when they started getting heated with them and other approvers on discord shortly before their ban.
Now this is not at all to draw comparisons between a full on problem user and an approver that bore issues with my tagging habits: this is to draw comparisons to the feedback situations themselves. My feedback was seen as vengeful due to it coming a day or two after they left theirs on my account. Had it been left as neutral, the whole point of having left my feedback would have still very much been buried under criticisms that it was done out of spite or any potential discussions in the dms beforehand would have devolved in to the pointlessly tiresome back-and-forth that apparently went down on discord yesterday. My negative feedback was not left to them out of spite; it was to hold another user for once to the same standards that I’m constantly being lambasted over. While I KNOW that statement will still be misconstrued as being spiteful, I kept that feedback post I placed as critical but carefully worded as possible. If I was running off as much of a tempermental high as people think I was, either that feedback or a dm to them would’ve had much more verbal stink to it and I just don’t have the time, energy, or immaturity to be getting mad at a computer screen…

Point 4: No dm sent my way is ever left unread. I’ve had thorough discussions with other users on tagging habits, the overuse/underuse of certain tags and correcting those for future reference, why certain posts were labeled as new parents and whether there were enough revisionary changes or file size differences to warrant keeping them as new parents. In fact, the first negative feedback I even had to contest was an accusation by ampzz years ago that I was unreceptive to repeated dms regarding my tagging habits when I never received a single one from them in all my time using danbooru (I sure wouldn’t have been against talking things out provided they kept things civil).
I'm very much open to talking issues out in the dms. However, if anybody knows they’ve sent me unanswered dms in recent months regarding potentially poor tagging habits on my end, what else am I supposed to say to you? I honestly don’t think I’m as careless with tagging nowadays as others would think, but you have to understand how bloody disheartening it feels to have your own perceived improvement to your tagging efforts or what little contributions you make to the site amounting to nothing after so much criticism over the exact same issues other users are commonly ignoring as well. But this wall of text will likely be seen as my asking for a free pass to be lazy apparently, since other users think they have been picking up my slack too frequently. Even though I’ve clearly mentioned time and again for others to not concern themselves with tagging my posts for me; if any posts were upload sniped by me, I’m absolutely tagging them all as fast as I’m able.

I personally think the site would function a lot better if casual and simple, direct communication amongst users was encouraged directly on the site itself rather than relying on an overly bureaucratic feedback system on the forefront and a discord circlejerk in the back. Discord in general functions as a cancer of the brainstem for any community and inevitably leads to development of in-group/out-group social dynamics, targeting of individuals, dishonest particularism etc etc.

Hereinafter said:

I personally think the site would function a lot better if casual and simple, direct communication amongst users was encouraged directly on the site itself rather than relying on an overly bureaucratic feedback system on the forefront and a discord circlejerk in the back. Discord in general functions as a cancer of the brainstem for any community and inevitably leads to development of in-group/out-group social dynamics, targeting of individuals, dishonest particularism etc etc.

As much as Discord sucks as a proper communication method, I get that people gravitate towards that. Communication over the forums, DMs can be considered clunky at best. Nobody is interested in a tagging discussion taking the better part of a day to resolve when it can be resolved in 10 minutes with 2-3 people brainstorming on Discord.

Can you remove my negative negative review too? @Unapproved_in_Three_Days (and other contributor) pointed a wiki claiming something is there while the opposite was there for some reason, then I waited, then I changed the wiki, and that resulted in a negative feedback somehow. I don't like how this is presented on my profile. Previously I thought it was what it is (and maybe I can put something similar on their profile if I get the rights lol), but it seems this is not the case, and you delete the negative reviews?

reg_panda said:

Can you remove my negative negative review too? @Unapproved_in_Three_Days (and other contributor) pointed a wiki claiming something is there while the opposite was there for some reason, then I waited, then I changed the wiki, and that resulted in a negative review somehow. I don't like how this is presented on my profile. Previously I thought it was what it is (and maybe I can put something similar on their profile if I get the rights lol), but it seems this is not the case, and you delete the negative reviews?

Your case is far different. Feel free to petition your negative if you feel it was unjustly given but if you actually read the feedback, I assigned it as a negative for more than just you changing a help wiki. Unlike the negative I gave Topsy, which I realise was silly, yours was given because of your consistently bad behaviour and messes you create on the forums and with BURs.

I mean that is explititly there, and it is like not true? The whole wiki story is just your butthurt. Also how is it bad to put something in the wiki that TWO OF YOU CLAIM IT IS THERE. Wtf. The other things you wrote

"Too much consistently bad behaviour on the forums (bad advice, bad tags, bad discussions)"

^ this is just a bunch of random insults. This is okay if feedbacks are soft (again, if I can put something similar on your profile, then its okay). But this is not okay for hard feedbacks. It doesn't even try to look like something true. Maybe admin will delete it.

The other thing you are right, you commanded me to go through my previous posts and put more tag on them. I didn't do that.

nonamethanks said:

For context: earlier today I deleted the following feedbacks made against @Topsy_Krett, which caused some people on discord to complain about favoritism, and was the reason for the creation of this topic:

Show

Multiple warnings not to forget the loli tag and they still don‘t tag it. It‘s getting ridiculous by now.

and

Show

Unacceptable that you left untagged loli for any more than 3 minutes earlier (around 11:00 UTC-5) and needed someone else to step in and fix that. I won't tell you not to batch post or mintag snipe the way you did that set of 9 images but the least you could do is add the single tag FIRST before finishing the rest of your tagging so that it doesn't evade people's blacklists. The most egregious case would've been 8++ minutes untagged.

You're a builder so you have access to the mode menu. Either add the tag while sniping (Ctrl + V it into the tag box so your post gets the loli tag right away upon posting), or tag script the batch within seconds of posting then continue with the rest of your tagging. There's no excuse for you to leave one of the most blacklisted tags out of your posts for that long, regardless of the reason, and knowing that you've done this before.

My reasons for deleting these feedbacks are the following:

• complaining about a post missing a tag for 3 minutes is laughable, especially when put in the light of blacklisting relevance. The last time the data was posted (several years ago) loli was blacklisted in similar numbers as penis or sex, and half as often as futanari, or 1/4th of the time as yaoi, though I'd imagine the gap has only widened since the advent of bara mass uploading. Imagine if people started giving feedbacks for missing penis or sex because of blacklisting reasons. I would have understood if this was about loli being forbidden content or stuff that should be hidden fairly quickly, but this is not about that (read on). The fact that "The most egregious case would've been 8++ minutes untagged." is also telling, mostly because 8 minutes was the worst mistake the user could find when nitpicking a reason to give a negative feedback;
• users don't get to be hypocrites and try to have another user banned for something they themselves are doing. if an user accuses another user of something in a negative feedback and then they do the same thing, there's two options: either they're negged in turn, or the feedback they gave is deleted. I don't want to see people giving feedbacks for not properly tagging loli when it takes me 10 seconds to find examples of the same behavior in their uploads (examples that I provided on discord to the user that gave the first feedback after they claimed that @Topsy_Krett had "gotten away with it").

I want to point out that a certain group of users has been seemingly actively trying over the past few months to get Topsy_Krett banned over various reasons. Lately this has been the perceived misuse of loli vs petite, while conveniently ignoring the dozens of other contributors and 10k posts under petite -loli is:nsfw that somehow don't pose a problem when not uploaded by the user in question. It seems this kind of concern trolling regarding the loli tag started after their previous attempt at getting him banned for mintagging (which @Unbreakable also noticed) didn't work, as that was not against the rules.
In particular, the second feedback was given by a user who had come under the belief that loli was one of the most blacklisted tags on the site during discussions about Topsy's usage of loli vs petite (this cluelessness on the topic at hand became evident after a brief discussion on discord). It's really hard for me not to see this as a really pathetic attempt at gaslighting random users into giving Topsy a feedback for irrelevant reasons.

I banned Topsy a year ago for spamming related tags and misusing loli, but he has since significantly improved, and given his volume of uploads it's only expected that he would make a few mistakes every once in a while. Mistakes which, I want to point out, he typically fixes within minutes.
To see this kind of cherry picking on one or two mistagged posts over THOUSANDS of them, committed by people who then not only ignore dozens of other users doing the same, but even commit the exact same mistakes, is baffling. To see it against someone who is trying to improve, and for such a petty reason, is infuriating.

And since this is a wall of text and the people in question are just going to reply with "no u", let's have a fun look at the numbers because I got annoyed at this enough that I had to look at the details.

The following are the posts by the user in question where loli was added by someone else after upload , uploaded after I gave them a warning about being more cautious with the loli tag last year.

That's 42 posts out of 11.5k uploads in the same period (date:>2023-11-15 user:Topsy_Krett), and 454 loli uploads. 42 posts out of 454 is 10% of applicable posts where the tag was missing and added to someone else. Pretty bad, right? Well, it becomes a lot less worse when you realize that half the posts are either old posts that got 1upped and didn't have the loli tag for 7 years, or had builders edit warring with other users, or had the tag added after mintagging, when it would've been added by the user in question immediately after upload otherwise (whether you think that should be against the rules doesn't change the fact that it's not and never has been), or is stuff that a lot of users including builders and approvers still wouldn't tag loli (illyasviel_von_einzbern (french_kiss or saliva_trail) -rating:e loli has half the results of illyasviel_von_einzbern (french_kiss or saliva_trail) -rating:e -loli), or is stuff even I would be on the fence about.

I count 21 posts where there was none of that stuff going on, and 5 of them in the last 2 months. He uploaded 2832 uploads under the same period. That's nitpicking. You are punishing an user for something everyone does with impunity, including users that should be setting an example. How can you justify giving someone a negative feedback over this when we have approvers edit warring over these posts? (1, 2)

Anyway, I have pinged him in this topic so that he may defend himself instead of being the subject of shittalking without being able to clap back.

Basically, no need to adjust the poor tagging. On every level. Because everyone does it.
Why do we have to tag properly again?
Instead of striving to become better, you're actively saying we should not be doing that.
In my opinion, you are going the wrong way here. Instead of saying that these warring over that tag should stop, you're making that behavior the basis of removing a negative feedback. And that's just backwards. It's justifying a wrongdoing with another wrongdoing.
By deleting these feedbacks, you're giving out freedom in which everyone tries to do what they can barely get away with or even straight up break the watered down rules. It sets a bad precedent.

And then there's the point that you are saying one should not give out feedbacks because you notice a wrongdoing you're doing yourself. Yeah, it's hypocritical, but the point of feedbacks is to point out certain actions that are detrimental or impact the site negatively on another level. And I don't see how potential hypocritical behavior changes that. A wrong is still a wrong, it's just a fact. The author behind a feedback must not matter if the content itself is still valid. If that author receives the same feedback, then that's on them, but it's in accordance with feedback guidelines.
Am I supposed to check all my 55k uploads if they're in accordance with the loli wiki when I notice someone misusing that tag?

Also, guys. Please do not use this topic to appeal your feedbacks. That's clearly not the goal here. I hope you realize that that's not an effective approach.

reg_panda said:

I mean that is explititly there, and it is like not true? The whole wiki story is just your butthurt. Also how is it bad to put something in the wiki that TWO OF YOU CLAIM IT IS THERE. Wtf. The other things you wrote

"Too much consistently bad behaviour on the forums (bad advice, bad tags, bad discussions)"

^ this is just a bunch of random insults. This is okay if feedbacks are soft (again, if I can put something similar on your profile, then its okay). But this is not okay for hard feedbacks. It doesn't even try to look like something true. Maybe admin will delete it.

Alright, you relax now.

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