Posted under Tags
What's the point of this tag? 1other & co were created in order to be able to filter down for solo/duo/etc pics when 1girl and 1boy couldn't be used, such as very wide shot pictures. But these specific "other" tags like furry other and dark-skinned other seem to me like padding that doesn't have any actual usefulness for searching. They remind me of ambiguous penetration, which we nuked in topic #20081.
In what scenario would someone want to search for "furry other", that isn't covered by a furry androgynous search (which is, incidentally, not how *other tags should be used)?
BUR #23431 has been approved by @nonamethanks.
nuke dark-skinned_other
nuke furry_other
nuke faceless_other
nuke cat_other
nuke muscular_other
nuke topless_other
nuke dog_other
nuke mouse_other
These are truly bizarre tags. That post #7018296 would be tagged with topless other looks like a big joke to our expense.
im guessing its because a decent number of canonically ambiguous characters have popped up recently, in comparison to before where it was usually "haha isnt this character so androgynous!?!?!?! (btw theyre a girl/boy)"
in comparison you now have characters who are non-jokingly ? gendered or like nanachi where it will probably be revealed later but we dont know for now, so tags needed to adjust
blacklists for furry and dark-skinned non females are pretty popular
thelieutenant said:
im guessing its because a decent number of canonically ambiguous characters have popped up recently, in comparison to before where it was usually "haha isnt this character so androgynous!?!?!?! (btw theyre a girl/boy)"
in comparison you now have characters who are non-jokingly ? gendered or like nanachi where it will probably be revealed later but we dont know for now, so tags needed to adjust
blacklists for furry and dark-skinned non females are pretty popular
Again, not what the *other tags are for. "other" is not "androgynous", it's "I can't tell whether this character is male or female because their features are obscured or deliberately ambiguously drawn". What these tags should really be called, based on how they've been used, is androgynous furry or androgynous topless, and that immediately reveals them for what they are: redundant tags.
faceless other is even worse, because it's obvious what the gender is in a lot of those pictures, the tagger just didn't want to tag it because they couldn't see a dick and brought the "tag what you see" mantra to an absurd conclusion.
Updated
nonamethanks said:
Again, not what the *other tags are for. "other" is not "androgynous", it's "I can't tell whether this character is male or female because their features are obscured or deliberately ambiguously". What these tags should really be called, based on how they've been used, is androgynous furry or androgynous topless, and that immediately reveals them for what they are: redundant tags.
so what should those images be tagged with if not 1other? the 1other tag for genderless characters has been going on for a while, i first noticed it around frisk and most people are allergic to not tagging an image with one of the gendercount tags
nonamethanks said:
What's the point of this tag?
The *other tags were created predominantly to catch humanoid characters like Frisk or the gems from Houseki no Kuni, who cannot be tagged 1boy or 1girl on account of either lacking gender or having no confirmed gender to begin with, but you can still see their faces and whatnot. I don't think these tags were ever designed to catch out of frame hands and clothes animals and whatnot to begin with. They just ended up being used that way because people are allergic to going without charcounting.
I always assumed tags like furry other were the logical conclusion of having tags like furry male or furry female, considering furrification is a tag that does see use in these fandoms. The problem is that that point has been muddled by people shoving things like Kirby into the *others tags when that was never their intended use. While there is a problem here, I don't think it's the tags themselves that are the issue, as opposed to how people end up using them.
The *other tags have a problem of ending up the dumping ground for your average clothed animal and out of frame hand, when that was never what they were designed for. They were designed for fully in framed humanoid characters who you cannot determine are male or female. As a result, tags like furry other, originally created for the same reason we have furry male and furry female, end up muddled by these same issues. Hell, I end up needing the other focus tag just to search the *others tags as they were intended. A better solution would be something that gets at least the damn animals out of my 1other search.
Updated
Can we also talk about the newest trend of tagging disembodied hands as others because "technically you don't know their gender" even when they look exactly like what literally everyone has understood to be hands belonging to out-of-frame males for literal decades? Regardless of whether disembodied limbs should be included in the count at all, that's its own discussion, I seriously doubt people looking for genderless characters want beefy, obviously male-coded hands in their searches.
Updated
blindVigil said:
Can we also talk about the newest trend of tagging disembodied hands as others because "technically you don't know their gender" even when they look exactly like what literally everyone has understood to be hands belonging to out-of-frame males for literal decades? Regardless of whether disembodied limbs should be included in the count at all, I seriously doubt people looking for genderless characters want beefy, obviously male-coded hands in their searches.
Agreed, it gets quite ridiculous at times. post #7185527 for example, that's about as obviously male as it gets, not to mention the parent post #7178047. Same thing can be said for a post like post #7167656, and these are just random examples I found without any effort.
blindVigil said:
Can we also talk about the newest trend of tagging disembodied hands as others because "technically you don't know their gender" even when they look exactly like what literally everyone has understood to be hands belonging to out-of-frame males for literal decades? Regardless of whether disembodied limbs should be included in the count at all, that's its own discussion, I seriously doubt people looking for genderless characters want beefy, obviously male-coded hands in their searches.
As someone who had the discussion about this exact topic with you recently, I feel like you are misrepresenting the discourse somewhat.
For context, I am referring to the discussion on post #3247287 ; no need for anyone to take my word on it, everyone can read it themself :)
When we discussed the very topic you are describing, another builder named Grey Omega came along and made some quite convincing arguments why he interpreted the disembodied hands as female (like how they have prolonged nails etc.). From my point of view, both viewpoints where just as valid. And while there are definitely cases where the gender of disembodied hands is quite clear, there are naturally situations where that just isn't the case.
Just deciding well after the fact that you are obviously right and everybody else is just ignorant is at least rude. I'm not saying its the other way around, and you don't have to agree to anyones reasoning, but I think its undoubtedly sometimes simply debateable. Just think about the discussions that we are having in the loli/shota check thread.
(and in case you aren't actually referring to our discussion at all, let me already apologise for misinterpreting what you said here, but thats the connection I naturally made).
Unrelated to that, despite using the 1other tag in the way it wasn't actually intended myself (I didn't know its history and therefore simply didn't know any better), I definitely see the problem with the current situation. Maybe it would make sense to split the tag sorta, and create a tag for its originally intended use (or just keep that one as 1other), and one tag for a character where the gender simply isn't discernable.
Because individual cases aside, its simply guaranteed that there are situations where that won't be always clear. Is the way how a finger is drawn an indicator for a characters gender, or simply part of that artstyle? etc.
Alternatively, we could make it an official tag guideline to simply not tag characters that are out of frame at all with gender specific tags or something like that.
I wasn't even talking about you. This is a thing that extends beyond that single discussion, that I've noticed for a while.
As far as that discussion is concerned, you're right, the hands at the top of the image are distinctly more ambiguous than the others, but the two bottom hands are undeniably male in appearance. At the bare minimum, that post should be tagged 1girl 1other and 2boys, not 3others.
Updated
blindVigil said:
I wasn't even talking about you. This is a thing that extends beyond that single discussion, that I've noticed for a while.
As far as that discussion is concerned, you're right, the hands at the top of the image are distinctly more ambiguous than the others, but the two bottom hands are undeniably male in appearance. At the bare minimum, that post should be tagged 1girl 1other and 2boys, not 3others.
Sorry that I did mistake that for being specifically related to our discussion - and thank you for the calm and nuanced response. :)
Since you are so actively discussing *others, I want to derail for a moment and ask you to "think of the children!", as per forum #256961
hdk5 said:
Not exactly the point of the thread, but do we have a loli/shota-like tag for 1other ambiguous_gender?
For example, post #6797699 at the moment is tagged 1boy 3girls loli (with "those who suck dick are usually female" in mind), but it could be 4boys shota yaoi or 1boy 3others ambiguous_gender <something> just as well.
The bulk update request #22246 (forum #264319) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
BUR #23593 has been rejected.
mass update miniother -> -miniother mini_person
mass update dark-skinned_other -> -dark-skinned_other dark_skin
mass update faceless_other -> -faceless_other faceless
mass update furry_other -> -furry_other furry
mass update muscular_other -> -muscular_other muscular
mass update topless_other -> -topless_other topless
nonamethanks said: BUR #23431
nuke dark-skinned_other
nuke furry_other
nuke faceless_other
nuke cat_other
nuke muscular_other
nuke topless_other
nuke dog_other
nuke mouse_otherThese are truly bizarre tags. That post #7018296 would be tagged with topless other looks like a big joke to our expense
In defense of admin's BUR against those badly-named gendered tags. I think you might missed this one. There's already a better term for any mini characters (see topic #20486).
Unfortunately my problem with simply nuking some of these is because there are many posts tagged with *_other are missing the main ones. Browse dark-skinned_other -dark_skin for example.
Updated
The bulk update request #23431 (forum #269228) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
The bulk update request #23431 (forum #269228) has been approved by @nonamethanks.
