Donmai

Bad manners by some moderators

Posted under General

This topic has been locked.

Hello, 3 days ago I uploaded a drawing, I don't expect my drawings to be approved because, although they are not bad, they are not going to meet the "standard" of quality of this web, partly because I started drawing less than a year ago and I'm still learning. Even so, sharing them can help me to grow and receive support, which will encourage me to keep on working hard.
Well, soon after it tells me in moderation that a certain Talulah has deleted my drawing, I think it's bad that they delete it manually so I appeal and ask why they have deleted it, in case I had broken any rule, the answer I receive from one of the mods anonymously is literally: "Because it was garbage".
Sincerely I find it disrespectful to my efforts to learn and create and I have serious doubts of wanting to continue uploading what I do to this page.

Updated by RaisingK

While I don't entirely agree with it being manually deleted, nor will I comment on its quality, Danbooru is not a place for new artists to post their art to help them grow and receive support. Danbooru is intended as an archive for high quality art, while it isn't explicitly against the rules to upload "low quality art", it can be said to be implicitly against the rules to do so. Almost certainly a moderator or admin would have eventually asked you to stop if you continued to upload art that had no chance of being approved.

All of which is to say, we don't really care if you stop uploading your creations, and may even prefer that you do stop. If you do continue, you will likely just get more comments like from that one approver, and not just from moderation members. I would recommend you try a different site if support, encouragement, and healthy critique are what you're hoping to get.

If your art reaches a level where it meets Danbooru's standards, someone else will upload them from wherever you choose to post them. If you would rather they didn't after this experience, or for whatever other reasons, you can submit a DMCA request to have them taken down.

The site's community rules state that we need to be civil to one another, and that rule applies to users at all levels, including to the site's builders, contributors, mods, and admins while processing the mod queue, and interacting here in the forums. Attacking one another has no place, and escalating disputes is never helpful.

That said, we do have certain users that intentionally antagonize those in the mod queue by posting things egregiously below the quality threshold (or outside the acceptable topics) that will ever be accepted here. When dealing with these posts manual deletions are warranted, and sometimes it's difficult not to be a little dismissive in dealing with that content or those uploaders. Some of these people will continue to create new accounts, and generally go out of their way to troll the site. Personally I don't agree that this was one of those cases, and in general I prefer that the feedback provided when flagging, rejecting, and deleting be constructive or at least non-combative. Again though, some of those trolling cases are frankly intended to be perceived as garbage. This was not one of those cases, but those cases can flavor people's reactions to things they perceive as similar. While I can't say a manual deletion was warranted here, I do agree that at this point, those works as they are were unlikely to be approved.

As for self-uploading, we do discourage it here. It's not banned, and occasionally there are self-uploaded posts that are well received. Too often though, it's too hard for a person to distance themselves from their work and gauge quality as objectively as is sometimes needed, and it's far too easy to take critique of the work as a personal slight. We almost always prefer that artists post their work elsewhere (Pixiv, Twitter, Deviantart, etc) and allow a third party to be the judge of it's suitability here. All artists need to start from somewhere and grow from there, and I can see that you are earnest in developing your skill and want to share your work. As others said though, Danbooru may not be the best place for that. Other communities are aimed more for that sort of thing, or if you joined the Discord there is a section for those who are learning and would like constructive feedback.

In short, we should all do our best to be more civil in our interactions with the site. We should also be cognizant of how the site works, and how it is intended to be worked with. Know also that not everything is approvable, that feedback to a work is not generally meant as feedback to a user, and as much as possible avoid hard feelings when opening one's own work up to such criticism (as will always happen when posting to a site like this one).

nZer0J said:

Hello, 3 days ago I uploaded a drawing, I don't expect my drawings to be approved because, although they are not bad, they are not going to meet the "standard" of quality of this web, partly because I started drawing less than a year ago and I'm still learning. Even so, sharing them can help me to grow and receive support, which will encourage me to keep on working hard.
Well, soon after it tells me in moderation that a certain Talulah has deleted my drawing, I think it's bad that they delete it manually so I appeal and ask why they have deleted it, in case I had broken any rule, the answer I receive from one of the mods anonymously is literally: "Because it was garbage".
Sincerely I find it disrespectful to my efforts to learn and create and I have serious doubts of wanting to continue uploading what I do to this page.

IMO this sites quality and content control has rapidly deteriorated over the course of this summer so I'm frankly not even surprised. I paid for gold membership, but the way things are going I'm seriously thinking of looking for alternatives for a few reasons now. Lately I'm actually liking Pixiv's methods for content control and categorization of tags and images a lot more and it doesn't seem as subjected to a handful of staffers favoritism towards particular things either. I also kind of like how Pixiv distinguishes between general images and R-18 images, which given certain proclivities of user bases browsing and evaluation patterns kind of feel like they should be separately categorized, ranked and aggregated.

Personally I'm giving it till the end of the year and if things are still kind of the way they are right now with the site and content moderation and just this relentless push to upload and reupload basically the same images over and over then IMO Danbooru just kind of isn't worth it anymore and I can just consider the gold membership a sunken cost and move on since my Japanese is getting good enough to the point where I find Pixiv much easier to use than a few years prior. For my experience and two cents lately though it's that I've had approvers/moderators telling me they hope I would be permanently banned from the site for expressing some opinions about consistent IMO excessive reuploads of images from certain tags clogging up the catalog every time I go to browse. I've had it expressed to me that I could use the blacklist which is fair, but I feel like I really don't want to have to do that because it's not the content itself that's the issue nor do I want to have to block it out entirely, it's the excessive spamming of certain things that's the entity of the issue.

I wasn't even that outspoken on this site up until about a month ago when I started to really notice certain things and behaviors by the content moderation staff that I felt bore some calling into question. It's not the most hostility I've ever gotten for speaking out on the internet ever by any stretch, but it's enough that it just hasn't sat well with me and I get the sense that for daring to pipe up about it some things I've been noticing that struck me as unusual activity for the site (I've been using it for about 12 years now so it would be a shame to have to abandon it as my main go to for anime/manga/game related fanart), that the sites staff would just as soon be happy to be rid of me, you, and people of a similar sort.

Updated

Shinjidude said:

The site's community rules state that we need to be civil to one another, and that rule applies to users at all levels, including to the site's builders, contributors, mods, and admins while processing the mod queue, and interacting here in the forums. Attacking one another has no place, and escalating disputes is never helpful.

That said, we do have certain users that intentionally antagonize those in the mod queue by posting things egregiously below the quality threshold (or outside the acceptable topics) that will ever be accepted here. When dealing with these posts manual deletions are warranted, and sometimes it's difficult not to be a little dismissive in dealing with that content or those uploaders. Some of these people will continue to create new accounts, and generally go out of their way to troll the site. Personally I don't agree that this was one of those cases, and in general I prefer that the feedback provided when flagging, rejecting, and deleting be constructive or at least non-combative. Again though, some of those trolling cases are frankly intended to be perceived as garbage. This was not one of those cases, but those cases can flavor people's reactions to things they perceive as similar. While I can't say a manual deletion was warranted here, I do agree that at this point, those works as they are were unlikely to be approved.

As for self-uploading, we do discourage it here. It's not banned, and occasionally there are self-uploaded posts that are well received. Too often though, it's too hard for a person to distance themselves from their work and gauge quality as objectively as is sometimes needed, and it's far too easy to take critique of the work as a personal slight. We almost always prefer that artists post their work elsewhere (Pixiv, Twitter, Deviantart, etc) and allow a third party to be the judge of it's suitability here. All artists need to start from somewhere and grow from there, and I can see that you are earnest in developing your skill and want to share your work. As others said though, Danbooru may not be the best place for that. Other communities are aimed more for that sort of thing, or if you joined the Discord there is a section for those who are learning and would like constructive feedback.

In short, we should all do our best to be more civil in our interactions with the site. We should also be cognizant of how the site works, and how it is intended to be worked with. Know also that not everything is approvable, that feedback to a work is not generally meant as feedback to a user, and as much as possible avoid hard feelings when opening one's own work up to such criticism (as will always happen when posting to a site like this one).

For what it's worth I've found the green/red moderator/administrator teams behavior, feedback and responses to be consistently on point, professional and serious since the day I started using the site. I've never felt like the sites core mod/admin staff play favorites, have any sort of particular agendas or biases, and just want to run an image site that has some consistent standards as it should be. It's the purple "approver" and "uploader" ones that are sometimes just plain rude and hostile in their responses to stuff (One of the ones that said they hope I got perma-banned from the site for expressing a position they disagreed with was a purple), appear to sometimes play favorites in what they upload or allow to be considered of sufficient quality or not to remain uploaded or manually removed.

I 100% get it about certain users trying to antagonize/troll the site with bad art or rule breaking stuff though, but saying you hope somebody gets permabanned or calling a guy trying to build his crafts artwork "garbage"....yeah I don't know about that.....

Updated

Kaioshin_Sama said:

For what it's worth I've found the green/red moderator/administrator teams behavior, feedback and responses to be consistently on point, professional and serious since the day I started using the site. I've never felt like the sites core mod/admin staff play favorites, have any sort of particular agendas or biases, and just want to run an image site that has some consistent standards as it should be. It's the purple "approver" and "uploader" ones that are sometimes just plain rude and hostile in their responses to stuff (One of the ones that said they hope I got perma-banned from the site for expressing a position they disagreed with was a purple), appear to sometimes play favorites in what they upload or allow to be considered of sufficient quality or not to remain uploaded or manually removed.

Danbooru is a volunteer-driven site. Nobody is getting paid to coddle you or any other user, so it is quite literally not their job to hold your hand, put on their best customer service smile, and speak in a slow, measured voice as to not ruffle your sensitive feathers. I can't justify or condemn the way you've been treated in the past, but it's easy to understand why any of our Builders with years of hard work would get a bit miffed at your incessant whining which is also your only contribution (other than a string of pool updates, which were deleted for being useless). Respect is earned, not given, and there is very little to your name to suggest you deserve any sort of respect.

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