Should we allow AI art?

machan12 said:

Sorry for being clueless, but what *are* the tells that give it away? So far, I've been looking for bad hands or screwed up eyes/nipples, but it sounds like there are more.

A lot of them look too, correct. The skin is so smooth there isn't any smudge or texture, the nose is weirdly rounded, the shading is a 100% perfect blend. It looks like people who are new to art followed a textbook example, it's lifeless.

Currently it passes as the level of "sexy animu waifu with huge tits bikini", because that is the easy to learn and can get satisfying results & start to make money instantly, but no beyond that, and what actually goes beyond that is what japanese (anime) styled art is really about imo. That's what I fear, next step, they might try to replicate actually interesting texture and image composition and personal styles... Which is bad.

I understand the reasoning behind banning pictures of people generated by ai, but what about landscapes and such?
post #5734272

I think it shouldn't create any copyright concerns or complaints.

P.s. I hadn't known that it was AI-generated when I uploaded it, but right now I want to make it clear. Artist:
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/526122/artworks
has a lot of scenery images, idk if all of them are AI-generated

I noticed that AIs usually have a hard time drawing fingers, symbols and text appropriately (most of time I can tell it's AI just by looking at the fingers). Sometimes AI even tries an improvised signature that doesn't really tell anything. They usually do best in typical "1girl, solo, white background" pictures, but if the AI tries something more complex, like multiple characters interacting with each other, sex, muscular female, a more complex background, etc, the flaws become glaring. A good number of these AI art are pretty much akin to uncanny valley:

post #5730867 - Look at her right thigh
post #5728184 - Four legs
post #5732100 - One has a floating hand, the other has a pulverized hand. Their expressions are broken as well

The AI might learn eventually how to mitigate these flaws, but there's another factor. NovelAI's artstyle is becoming more and more solid. Just like human artists have their artstyle solidified with time, this applies to AIs as well. A well trained eye can notice minor details that help identify the artist.

aphex said:

I agree. However will people be able to tell if it's AI or not eventually? Current artifacts that give it away will decrease overtime. Right now it's easy for the most part.

The problem here is: users or fake artists that uploads AI-generated art as if they were made by humans. It's not that different from users who upload sourceless paid reward as if they were uploading public available art. In cases like this, we'll have to do some investigation reagardless, just like we already do with potential paid rewards that get uplodaded here.

Anyone with approval permission should probably look at all the deleted posts or even spend some time using this stuff so they can get an eye for it. I've just clipped a few posts from a long time, high volume uploader. Need to learn what we're looking for on the less obvious ones.

post #5736206 - eyes, eyelashes, hands
post #5736207 - eyes, arms not in jacket, medalion hanging off belt, shirt collar, collarbone area
post #5736210 - her hands and feet are bad but I could see a real artist doing bad hands and feet like this, the length the lines of her closed eyes though are very mismatched, belt buckle

Also it's not enough to toss anything out on its own, but the standard output for NovelAI is 512x768.

ShadowbladeEdge said:

Also it's not enough to toss anything out on its own, but the standard output for NovelAI is 512x768.

AI-generated art will always be output at a resolution that's divisible by 64. Obviously, it's not impossible for an artist to simply draw on a canvas that's 640x768 or something. But it can be something to notice. Especially since some are using waifu2x and similar after generating.
approvers asked to learn math, danbooru in shambles

AI-generated is now tagged automatically in some cases. It's based on analyzing the EXIF metadata, which you can see by clicking the little "»" next to the filesize on a post (example). You may also be able to see the AI prompt here.

This isn't foolproof and it only works in a minority of cases, so just because an image isn't detected as AI-generated doesn't mean it's not AI-generated.

In my opinion, the existence of AI painting has the risk of significantly damaging the ACG area's production chain. Probably, some people, like the individual game producer for instance, might feel happy about the AI painting due to the lower cost of the illustration. But more people such as designers or painters will lose their job and their hard-working time seems to be rejected due to the "copy-paste" AI painting. It is necessary to cultivate a good illustrator will cost 5-10 or even more years as well. Just imagine the scenery that most of the illustrations and artworks were produced only by AI showing a limited art style. On the other hand, real artists decreased dramatically due to the loss of enthusiasm and life support. In the end, we would never see the colorful styles and expressions but the single, boring, and ridged robot works.

Damaging the production lines of the ACG might also become a serious problem in some countries because of the huge amount of illustrators with an increasing speed of member enlargement. And related new policies might appear to prohibit the usage of AI painting on commercial requests.

Finally, I personally believe that if the development of technology could not make people's lives better but only caused problems like job loss, stopping at the current step should be a better idea that walking forward in an incorrect direction.

I personally can't see people being replaced with AI for drawings, to be honest.

Maybe for background illustration (scenery), though...

Though in fairness, some anime companies already do the same thing. I believe P.A. works took images from Google and just applied a filter to them to make them more... anime.

It's incredible how many times while browsing through pixiv I'll think "oh that image looks nice, let's check it out" then right as I'm about to click I go "aw shit, this is AI isn't it?" and probably 99% of the time it really is. Even from the thumbnails there's just something that feels "off" about it.
Of course it's really obvious when someone is uploading AI art that's supposed to be a specific character and it only has superficial details that match the character's design but otherwise looks nothing like them.

mongirlfan said:

AIbooru already exists for that purpose.

That's copping-out the topic at hand.

Is there a way to tell if an image is AI-generated and the artist doesn't use the appropriate tags, like what happened to me when I uploaded post #5749360? I've been doing my best to filter out any AI-related tags on Pixiv for my searches, but clearly it's not as solid a system as I would like. I know just looking at the image and spotting the telltale signs of an AI-generated illustration is somewhat helpful, along with the guidelines described in the ai-generated wiki, but it's still so troublesome when it looks so samey and could masquerade as an artist's actual style.

AI has issues with hands, so that's a good thing to look out for.

Benit149 said:

Is there a way to tell if an image is AI-generated and the artist doesn't use the appropriate tags, like what happened to me when I uploaded post #5749360? I've been doing my best to filter out any AI-related tags on Pixiv for my searches, but clearly it's not as solid a system as I would like. I know just looking at the image and spotting the telltale signs of an AI-generated illustration is somewhat helpful, along with the guidelines described in the ai-generated wiki, but it's still so troublesome when it looks so samey and could masquerade as an artist's actual style.

You can also check what other works the user has done. In the case of your post, that user has only starting uploading works this week and they all have that AI generated look. So that's a strong tell there that all their stuff is AI generated. But also you can view the metadata of the file as the AI generators will state themselves as the source and software. You can do that from danbooru after uploading by clicking the arrows next to the Size info which will take you to here. Software is NovelAI and source is Stable Diffusion; therefore, it's AI generated. Now this isn't a failproof way to detect AI works either as a determined person could edit the metadata themselves or it might get stripped by the site they upload to. But no one is going to edit the metadata to make it seem like it was AI generated, so the chance of an image being falsely flagged this way is very low.

Benit149 said:

Is there a way to tell if an image is AI-generated and the artist doesn't use the appropriate tags, like what happened to me when I uploaded post #5749360? I've been doing my best to filter out any AI-related tags on Pixiv for my searches, but clearly it's not as solid a system as I would like. I know just looking at the image and spotting the telltale signs of an AI-generated illustration is somewhat helpful, along with the guidelines described in the ai-generated wiki, but it's still so troublesome when it looks so samey and could masquerade as an artist's actual style.

In this picture specifically, what would have twigged me was the eyes (they're two different shapes) and the background (AI seems to love blurry "could be a wall + door" two-tone gradients).

Benit149 said:

Is there a way to tell if an image is AI-generated and the artist doesn't use the appropriate tags, like what happened to me when I uploaded post #5749360? I've been doing my best to filter out any AI-related tags on Pixiv for my searches, but clearly it's not as solid a system as I would like. I know just looking at the image and spotting the telltale signs of an AI-generated illustration is somewhat helpful, along with the guidelines described in the ai-generated wiki, but it's still so troublesome when it looks so samey and could masquerade as an artist's actual style.

Indicators that post #5749360 is AI, and the the "artist" is only uploading AI art:

• Low resolution
• The fact that the artist's first art dates from October 11. It's always sus when a new artist just made 9 arts in 5 days.
• Fingers. Curiously, this artist tried to hide the hands in most of their art, but they look unnatural here
• And of course, that particular shading and artstyle that every single NovelAI art have, but you need to have well trained eye to note these.

When in doubt, I recommend you to ask if a picture is AI-generated on topic #22285.

Benit149 said:

Is there a way to tell if an image is AI-generated and the artist doesn't use the appropriate tags, like what happened to me when I uploaded post #5749360? I've been doing my best to filter out any AI-related tags on Pixiv for my searches, but clearly it's not as solid a system as I would like. I know just looking at the image and spotting the telltale signs of an AI-generated illustration is somewhat helpful, along with the guidelines described in the ai-generated wiki, but it's still so troublesome when it looks so samey and could masquerade as an artist's actual style.

It gets hairy when the poster makes an effort to edit or conceal the imperfections, but most AI spawns I've seen uploaded so far have been easily clockable, you just need to know what to watch out for. For one, your image has NovelAI's default output resolution (512x768), so you can cross out a suspiciously generic-looking image based on that alone. Make sure to take a closer look at the software's problem areas, which are hands, hair, fabric patterns, eye consistency and the neck area - in your example, part of the placket mysteriously overrides the bowtie ribbon, and a strand of hair is visible from behind the collar as if it were transparent.

A human artist may make mistakes with anatomy, shading and what have you but they don't produce inexplicable details like this on an otherwise technically "perfect" image.

And with the larger images, you can just zoom in and you'll see it's more or less AI made with imperfect - but not noticable from a distance - details.

Like a very well done collage.

You can also check what other works the user has done. In the case of your post, that user has only starting uploading works this week and they all have that AI generated look. So that's a strong tell there that all their stuff is AI generated. But also you can view the metadata of the file as the AI generators will state themselves as the source and software. You can do that from danbooru after uploading by clicking the arrows next to the Size info which will take you to here. Software is NovelAI and source is Stable Diffusion; therefore, it's AI generated. Now this isn't a failproof way to detect AI works either as a determined person could edit the metadata themselves or it might get stripped by the site they upload to. But no one is going to edit the metadata to make it seem like it was AI generated, so the chance of an image being falsely flagged this way is very low.

I can't believe I missed something as obvious as "artists" creating new Pixiv accounts and uploading loads of art in only a few days.

Now while the metadata is an excellent way to check, the biggest concern I have with that is as you said:

"You can do that from Danbooru after uploading..."

My concern is figuring it out before the upload. I did a mock upload of a different AI-generated image to see if I could check the metadata during an upload, and I can't find anything to help me with that. Asking in topic #22285 is well and good, but I wish there was a reliable method integrated into the upload process - say, it checks the metadata automatically and brings up an alert stating that the image is AI-generated. Of course I know this phenomenon is literally in its infancy, so it's too early to demand for Danbooru to implement such a change, if it can even happen. It's just a shame that Pixiv isn't as reliable as I'd like with filtering AI-generated art, which means having to train my eyes to spot a new type of art that is banned here amongst everything else like poor quality, banned artists, and objectionable content.

Still, I appreciate all of the suggestions, everyone. Like I said, I'm doing my absolute best to avoid uploading AI-generated art. As post #5749360 and post #5748912 indicate though, don't be shocked if I make such a mistake again in the near future.

Benit149 said:

"You can do that from Danbooru after uploading..."

My concern is figuring it out before the upload.

After inputting the URL (or using the bookmarklet), the site gets the file in the background and before you submit the post, you should be able to see the image among your unposted uploads. If you click on it there, you can see all the image’s metadata, including all data from AI generators, if there is any.

kittey said:

After inputting the URL (or using the bookmarklet), the site gets the file in the background and before you submit the post, you should be able to see the image among your unposted uploads. If you click on it there, you can see all the image’s metadata, including all data from AI generators, if there is any.

I'm looking around for it in my mock upload, which I'm using to experiment with looking for the metadata, not intended for actual upload -> https://danbooru.donmai.us/uploads/6296101

I still don't understand where in the Upload page I'm supposed to be looking, particularly if I haven't uploaded the post.