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ravenmelloowo said:
Bridget looks like a girl, so.. unless there's art with her penis, tag her as a girl?
So just like, mask off transphobic "i identify as a helicopter" shit. It doesn't even work because in the context of the given scenario she would be black and people would be misidentifying her as white. Fuck me for thinking I guess
How is this "transphobic"? What makes this scenario so wildly different considering the context of self identification?
Mavado said:
Noticed that a lot of the "people" voting yes in your little poll are accounts created TODAY.
evazion said:
Votes from offsite brigades will be ignored.
Relevant:
https://twitter.com/Muffin_Mythos/status/1576138363106516993
https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/613770023#p613813578
Akebono_no_Hikari said:
How is this "transphobic"? What makes this scenario so wildly different considering the context of self identification?
Gender identity is a thing, seperate from sex, and is represented in a majority of art. "Racial identity", uh, isn't, and no one draws art of it.
bakanon said:
Relevant:
https://twitter.com/Muffin_Mythos/status/1576138363106516993
https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/613770023#p613813578
Literally all of this is brigading on the "no" tag but funny how ppl kinda just jumped to assuming it was trans ppl doing it
avidd said:
It's directly related, tag what you see applies there and should apply everywhere equally. And I'm more talking about domestic interpretation of a story should be heavily weighted against the creator's intent. How many lightning bolts has Superman shot since he was killed, again?
I mean, I didn't say a thing about how I thought the character should or should not be tagged or about TWYS - I said that the character's identity wasn't the subject of the debate because it was stated by both the character and the creator. Regardless of your or anyone's feelings about the story or the quality of the representation or whatever, fact of the matter is that Bridget is canonically trans with GG Strive - you don't have to like it, but adamantly denying it is about as deluded as people who constantly claim Astolfo is a canonical trans icon when his story explicitly states he's a cis man.
The question isn't "is Bridget trans?" or "what do you think about the story development of Bridget being trans?" but "What if any changes should this imageboard make about tagging Bridget now that she's trans?"
sinko5peso said:
Funny that the thread was doing pretty good, talking about usefulness and better archiving, until the vote was publicized, then it turned into typical shitflinging by people who will never use this site. They just want another victory for more internet points
This is my favorite booru site bar-none. I've been lurking here for years, just never felt the need to contribute anything myself until my favorite character was narratively sabotaged.
If you want my honest opinion, the character of Bridget is canonically a biological male, who has always identified that way, very strongly. This new version, taking the Dev Backyard out of it, weakly claimed in one ending "I'm a girl" which wasn't enough for basically every Japanese fan. This shows a distinct lack of canon-material to say that the character is canonically "transgender" when all previous works showed the exact opposite. Just because we in the west are incredibly strict about gender categorization shouldn't taint the source, which verifiably didn't see a coming out story.
Again, if we're going through the Daisuke comments, which were obviously worded specifically for Japanese fans, and their subsequent reaction to it, we can conclude that they were stunned by this declaration due to the character's history and even the depiction within the Arcade. An otoko no ko declaring they're a girl one time was never going to be enough.
That being said, the character is intended to be seen as "identifying as a woman" now by the creator. Disgusting implications aside, that would be fine if the character didn't have such a weak canon in that direction. Since this site is colloquially used as a porn site, the character's canon-sex should be all that is used for tags, since that's generally all that is used for tagging is "what you see". If you see a penis, when the character is biologically male, it follows that you would use the tag "1boy". Unless we can visibly see breasts, a vagina, a sexchange operation, or Bridget's internal thoughts and dialogue that explicitly states "Since I'm a girl..." or something - there shouldn't be any need for any kind of controversy at all. All this is doing is creating a very unimportant and disturbing rift between tagging and artist intent. If the character is clearly treated as trans, I don't see a problem labeling it "transgender_female".
But really, this slope is a lot slipperier than you think. You give these people an inch, they will take a Saints Row.
Updated
ravenmelloowo said:
Literally all of this is brigading on the "no" tag but funny how ppl kinda just jumped to assuming it was trans ppl doing it
FYI right now the score for the BUR is even worse if we only consider accounts created before today. +30/-55 before the discrimination (-25), +21/-48 after (-27).
Astolfo said:
To be quite honest absolutely none of this is relevant to the discussion, because it ultimately doesn't matter what anyone thinks about the story or the change - fact of the matter is that the character explicitly says "I'm a girl!" and the character's creator explicitly states she identifies as a girl and would use she/her pronouns. The question is how to handle this situation with an imageboard's tagging system, not whether the character is trans or not.
Actually Bridget's past story is relevant, because most of the art hosted here is from pre-Strive Bridget, where the character was treated as male by the author, artists and fans alike. Hundreds of images of a boy who identified as a boy drawn by artists who saw as a boy and that would be tagged in a completely incorrect way if the proposed bulk change is approved in its current form. Post-Strive Bridget art drawn by artists who don't like or don't care the new canon and still see Bridget as male would also be affected negatively.
Approving the proposed bulk change won't solve the problem, it would simply shift it to another direction (cis male Bridget being tagged as 1girl instead of trans female Bridget being tagged as 1boy) AND affect a much bigger pool of art (thousands of pics where Bridget is seen or treated as male vs dozens of pics where artists state that they see Bridget as female).
You fools keep arguing about transphobia and unrelated real life stuff while ignoring the real problem that actually affects boorus.
bakanon said:
You fools keep arguing about transphobia and unrelated real life stuff while ignoring the real problem that actually affects boorus.
I don't know why you're aggroing me like I said anything about transphobia or how I thought the character should be tagged.
I said the character is trans as per GG Strive, which is true, and that the subject of the debate isn't the character's current identity or what you feel about the story but how to tag it now on this imageboard, which is also true.
bakanon said:
Actually Bridget's past story is relevant, because most of the art hosted here is from pre-Strive Bridget, where the character was treated as male by the author, artists and fans alike. Hundreds of images of a boy who identified as a boy drawn by artists who saw as a boy and that would be tagged in a completely incorrect way if the proposed bulk change is approved in its current form. Post-Strive Bridget art drawn by artists who don't like or don't care the new canon and still see Bridget as male would also be affected negatively.
Approving the proposed bulk change won't solve the problem, it would simply shift it to another direction (cis male Bridget being tagged as 1girl instead of trans female Bridget being tagged as 1boy) AND affect a much bigger pool of art (thousands of pics where Bridget is seen or treated as male vs dozens of pics where artists state that they see Bridget as female).
You fools keep arguing about transphobia and unrelated real life stuff while ignoring the real problem that actually affects boorus.
Did you even read what that BUR will do? It would only affect 168 posts, not the entire Bridget tag.
Astolfo said:
I don't know why you're aggroing me like I said anything about transphobia or how I thought the character should be tagged.
I said the character is trans as per GG Strive, which is true, and that the subject of the debate isn't the character's current identity or what you feel about the story but how to tag it now on this imageboard, which is also true.
So if the debate isn't about identity what the fuck are we even doing here.
Astolfo said:
Figuring out how to handle a transgender character should be handled with the tagging system? I said that in the post you quoted?
Transgender character is only so in identity even in the fairest interpretation. If it's not about identity, what the fuck are we doing here?
avidd said:
Transgender character is only so in identity even in the fairest interpretation. If it's not about identity, what the fuck are we doing here?
Oh my god you've got to be acting this obtuse and literal on purpose.
The character's identity isn't up for debate because it's confirmed as canon, the subject of the debate is HOW to tag a transgender character with the tagging system, jesus.
Astolfo said:
I don't know why you're aggroing me like I said anything about transphobia or how I thought the character should be tagged.
I said the character is trans as per GG Strive, which is true, and that the subject of the debate isn't the character's current identity or what you feel about the story but how to tag it now on this imageboard, which is also true.
I mean i still fail to see why every art of Bridget has to be labeled as one gender. I fully admit I could be wrong about this but is there any reason to not just have Strive Bridget art, or even just Strive Bridget art drawn by artists who believe the character is female, tagged as 1girl and have art representing Bridget pre-strive as 1boy?
At the end of the day the question isn't "Is Bridget a trans woman". Yes, she is. The question is, "how should we tag posts?", which I think the whole like "biological sex" thing undermines. Why should we be deliberately inaccurate to characters seen otherwise as female?
Like, again, if I go on a porn site I can look up "futa" or even just "trans" and expect to see art of trans women fucking. If I look up "trans" the site tells me I should have looked for "gender_transitioning" because transness is apparently a thing you do and not a thing you are, and if I look up "futa" I realize this site defines futa as "a fun, cuh-razy completely apolitical kink where a cute totally cisgender woman grows a penis!! wowsers!!!"
Astolfo said:
Oh my god you've got to be acting this obtuse and literal on purpose.
The character's identity isn't up for debate because it's confirmed as canon, the subject of the debate is HOW to tag a transgender character with the tagging system, jesus.
The only thing transgender about the character is the identity. Since you said it's not about the identity it's not about the identity... well, nevermind.
ravenmelloowo said:
I mean i still fail to see why every art of Bridget has to be labeled as one gender. I fully admit I could be wrong about this but is there any reason to not just have Strive Bridget art, or even just Strive Bridget art drawn by artists who believe the character is female, tagged as 1girl and have art representing Bridget pre-strive as 1boy?
I didn't say it should exclusively be tagged one way or the other at any point.
At the end of the day the question isn't "Is Bridget a trans woman". Yes, she is. The question is, "how should we tag posts?"
That's literally what I said yes.
avidd said:
The only thing transgender about the character is the identity. Since you said it's not about the identity it's not about the identity... well, nevermind.
Kay so you are doing it on purpose, good to know. I can't make it any clearer than I already have that the question isn't "is Bridget trans?" it's "How do we handle tagging Bridget now that she's confirmed trans?"
