Bridget - Guilty Gear Strive

groen90 said:

Source: "this was once revealed to me in a dream"?

idk i would think the one that game makes clear would be more popular. search "bridget" on twitter and almost all posts will be using she/her pronouns. there is so much art on this very website that has trans flag imagery and is tagged as "transgender_flag" but the rest of the tags completely conflict with what these images literally show. i dont have any quantifiable data but by calling her male you are actively siding with an idea that conflicts with the actual source material

groen90 said:

"she" still has a male body, unless proven otherwise.

Ignoring the dogwhistle, literally why does this matter? Unless this became a porn site without my knowledge (and even porn sites will usually make differences between trans women and femboys clear), most of the artwork literally is not shaped by assigned sex at birth whatsoever. The character looks like a girl, sounds like a girl, says she's a girl, and is confirmed by the devs to be a girl. There's nsfw art, but like.. again, there are ways around that whilst also not purposely conflating transness and gendernonconformity.

BUR #12565 has been rejected.

create alias 1boy -> 1male
create alias 1girl -> 1female

Look, since no one else is creating this BUR, I will. We can see what the majority believes from there. Voting can help, right?

I'm personally neutral on this, so don't take my making this as a vote.

This would go with male focus, futa with female, etc. Most tags use male-female in the first place, from what I've seen.

ravenmelloowo said:

- She says "I'm a girl" in the video game.
- The devs confirmed she was a girl in the dev's backyard

Seems as sure as sure can get to me. There are also people who call Luigi a girl, should we start tagging him as a girl?

I was not referring to this, but to the statement that "most people come here thinking that Bridget is a girl"

ravenmelloowo said:

- She says "I'm a girl" in the video game.
- The devs confirmed she was a girl in the dev's backyard

Seems as sure as sure can get to me. There are also people who call Luigi a girl, should we start tagging him as a girl?

I wasn't referring to this, but to the statement that "most people come here thinking that Bridget is a girl"

There's also a lot of people on Twitter saying that the character is a boy, and there was no change. (There's also a lot of people on Twitter saying that Felix from Re:Zero is a trans woman)

sadodere said:

BUR #12565 has been rejected.

create alias 1boy -> 1male
create alias 1girl -> 1female

Look, since no one else is creating this BUR, I will. We can see what the majority believes from there. Voting can help, right?

I'm personally neutral on this, so don't take my making this as a vote.

This would go with male focus, futa with female, etc. Most tags use male-female in the first place, from what I've seen.

I really really doubt this will be approved, because these are two of the most important tags, with milions of posts. The BUR is missing multiple girls and multiple boys as well, which would have to change if this is approved.

It would be helpful if you explained in detail what this alias would imply to the tag system and if the wikis would also be rewritten.

Dang, forums are active today huh 🍿. Just my 2 cents, idc as long as my searches aren't filled with gay/trap stuff because of some dumb change to the tags in the name of representation for a fictional character. That includes changes to lore for originally male characters suddenly showing up in the 1girl tags. I'm sure a good number of users are in the same boat as me (I.e. straight).

i am literally just repeating myself at this point, but i literally wouldn't mind if Bridget was tagged with otoko no ko if the picture specified it, i'm just really peeved about trans pride posts being tagged with otoko no ko because that's like disrespect of the artist's wishes to the max. i really don't see the issue with keeping (STRIVE) Bridget with 1girl unless specified.
Also, I would support the 1male and 1female thing if it was actually properly done. or like, just add a note to the gender tags saying something like "despite the tags being gendered, they actually depend on the character's biological sex."

if i was on the side of "Bridget male please" i think i would be more pissed off about seeing trans pride posts of her, yet they're on the site.

that's what i think, at least 🤔

a little edit: idk if this is just me, but i don't see the reason to make a character only tagged with one gender tag or the other, can't it depend on the picture itself? i get there would be a problem with the whole "which tag should be the default for Bridget" but like every english artist's picture would probably be 1girl and every jp artist's picture would probably be 1boy. idk anymore 😭😭😭

Bionicman76 said:

Dang, forums are active today huh 🍿. Just my 2 cents, idc as long as my searches aren't filled with gay/trap stuff because of some dumb change to the tags in the name of representation for a fictional character. That includes changes to lore for originally male characters suddenly showing up in the 1girl tags. I'm sure a good number of users are in the same boat as me (I.e. straight).

i mean for me personally i would like to see transfem characters on the same category as other female characters but like i totally get this standpoint. i don't think it would hurt at all for the tags to be straightened out to be more accurate for trans characters, or at least having a concise category that includes trans characters without lumping them in with their assigned sex - i.e i have no idea why futanari has to be exclusively magic fantasy type stuff and can't just include, like, actual women with actual penises (well, fictional but y'know what i mean)

sadodere said:

BUR #12565 has been rejected.

create alias 1boy -> 1male
create alias 1girl -> 1female

Look, since no one else is creating this BUR, I will. We can see what the majority believes from there. Voting can help, right?

I'm going to reject this for now because I want to take a vote on the least-controversial ideas first before jumping to more radical ideas.

And frankly, the whole debate is over what the words "male" and "female" mean. Does "female" mean a person's biological sex (whether they have a penis or vagina) or their gender presentation (how they look and act, how they consider themselves, how they present themselves to the world)? This does nothing to clarify matters because what the words "male" and "female" mean is the very question here.

The bulk update request #12565 (forum #222642) has been rejected by @evazion.

ravenmelloowo said:

i mean for me personally i would like to see transfem characters on the same category as other female characters but like i totally get this standpoint. i don't think it would hurt at all for the tags to be straightened out to be more accurate for trans characters, or at least having a concise category that includes trans characters without lumping them in with their assigned sex - i.e i have no idea why futanari has to be exclusively magic fantasy type stuff and can't just include, like, actual women with actual penises (well, fictional but y'know what i mean)

Wait, doesn't Futa already includes girls who're born with penis?

evazion said:

I'm going to reject this for now because I want to take a vote on the least-controversial ideas first before jumping to more radical ideas.

And frankly, the whole debate is over what the words "male" and "female" mean. Does "female" mean a person's biological sex (whether they have a penis or vagina) or their gender presentation (how they look and act, how they consider themselves, how they present themselves to the world)? This does nothing to clarify matters because what the words "male" and "female" mean is the very question here.

from what i can grasp, people are mad about "boy" and "girl" being used in a biological sense, and if danbooru tags the site based on a character's biological sex, the tags should be "male" and "female" instead, since those words are purely biological.

morriganaensland said:

from what i can grasp, people are mad about "boy" and "girl" being used in a biological sense, and if danbooru tags the site based on a character's biological sex, the tags should be "male" and "female" instead, since those words are purely biological.

No offense but lets be real here, thats a non-issue.

morriganaensland said:

from what i can grasp, people are mad about "boy" and "girl" being used in a biological sense, and if danbooru tags the site based on a character's biological sex, the tags should be "male" and "female" instead, since those words are purely biological.

No, it is not a given that the words "male" and "female" mean biological sex. This thread boils down to one side going "Bridget is female so she should be tagged as 1girl" and the other going "Bridget is male so he should be tagged as 1boy" with both sides having different definitions of what "male" and "female" mean.

evazion said:

No, it is not a given that the words "male" and "female" mean biological sex. This thread boils down to one side going "Bridget is female so she should be tagged as 1girl" and the other going "Bridget is male so he should be tagged as 1boy" with both sides having different definitions of what "male" and "female" mean.

oh, i was just going off of the tag renames, not the overall topic, my bad.

Now, I think it's fair to say that Bridget should be tagged as a girl when the artist explicitly depicts her as a transgender girl. So I'll say Bridget should be tagged as 1girl in SFW Strive posts where the artist explicitly depicts her as transgender. "Explicitly transgender" means things like with the transgender flag or trans colors. "SFW" means rating:G posts.

So this means the posts under bridget_(guilty_gear) transgender_flag rating:g should be tagged as 1girl. This is a grand total of 11 posts. This also means the otoko no ko tag should be removed from these posts.

Beyond that, I don't know what to do. Ask 10 people how Bridget should be tagged and you get 12 answers. The least-controversial proposal so far has been to tag Bridget as a girl when she looks like a girl in SFW Strive posts. I'll start with putting that to a vote then see where to go from there.

As for the idea of tagging Bridget as transgender, once again, I'm not against it, but people still haven't answered basic questions about how it should work. If you support this idea, please answer these questions:

• Do we tag every single Bridget post as transgender, or only Strive posts, or only Strive posts where Bridget is overtly depicted as transgender (with the trans flag, with trans colors, etc)?
• What do we call the tag? transgender? transgender (mtf) and transgender (ftm) (is the term "MtF" transphobic)? transgirl and transboy?
• Do we remove the otoko no ko tag if we tag Bridget as transgender? Keep in mind otoko no ko is one of the most searched-for tags on the site.
• Do we replace yaoi with something like transgirl with male? Keep in mind yaoi is one of the most blacklisted tags on the site, and those people won't be happy if this suddenly evades their blacklist.
• What about all the other male-gendered tags used for Bridget? What do we do with things like male pubic hair, male masturbation, topless male, toned male, etc? We either keep using tags like male pubic hair on Bridget even though we're saying she's a transgirl, or we end up with tags like transgirl pubic hair or male-presenting pubic hair, which is just... no.

BUR #12569 has been rejected.

mass update bridget_(guilty_gear) guilty_gear_strive 1boy rating:general -> 1girl -1boy -otoko_no_ko -male_focus -crossdressing

This would tag Bridget as a girl on all SFW Guilty Gear Strive posts. See bridget_(guilty_gear) guilty_gear_strive rating:general to see which posts this would affect.

This would also remove the otoko no ko, male focus, and crossdressing tags from these posts.

SFW means rating:G, so nothing with a penis or bulge visible. Compare with bridget_(guilty_gear) guilty_gear_strive -rating:g to see which posts would not be tagged as a girl.

Please read the thread to see all the pros and cons of this idea. It's been discussed at length so all that's left is to put it to a vote.

evazion said:

• Do we tag every single Bridget post as transgender, or only Strive posts, or only Strive posts where Bridget is overtly depicted as transgender (with the trans flag, with trans colors, etc)?

I would say to tag anything Strive Bridget related as trans unless it specifically implies otoko no ko (ie. pixiv tags, text on the pic, etc,]] there could be a problem with japanese pictures as we can't really tell how they feel about bridget's gender at a glance, but most western artists draw her with the intent of being trans, even if it's not explicit.

• What do we call the tag? transgender? transgender (mtf) and transgender (ftm) (is the term "MtF" transphobic)? transgirl and transboy?

i think having specific ftm and mtf tags would be best, not everyone wants to see trans men in their tag search and not everyone want to see trans women, that's in a more general sense though. in terms of the tag name, transgender (mtf)/(ftm) would be ok, unless something changed recently, i don't think mtf/ftm is offensive.

• Do we remove the otoko no ko tag if we tag Bridget as transgender? Keep in mind otoko no ko is one of the most searched-for tags on the site.

considering the western view of the otoko no ko tag is akin to crossdressers or "traps", it would be best to remove it. since it's an explicitly male tag.

• Do we replace yaoi with something like transgirl with male? Keep in mind yaoi is one of the most blacklisted tags on the site, and those people won't be happy if this suddenly evades their blacklist.

i don't see the problem with a transgirl with male tag, if people get mad about it, they could just blacklist that tag too.

• What about all the other male-gendered tags used for Bridget? What do we do with things like male pubic hair, male masturbation, topless male, toned male, etc? We either keep using tags like male pubic hair on Bridget even though we're saying she's a transgirl, or we end up with tags like transgirl pubic hair or male-presenting pubic hair, which is just... no.

well, bridget in this scenario would be tagged male with a transgender tag, right? (considering most of those tags wouldn't appear outside of NSFW pics) i suppose the male tags would be fine in that case... i'm not too sure though.

evazion said:

BUR #12569 has been rejected.

mass update bridget_(guilty_gear) guilty_gear_strive 1boy rating:general -> 1girl -1boy -otoko_no_ko -male_focus -crossdressing

This would tag Bridget as a girl on all SFW Guilty Gear Strive posts. See bridget_(guilty_gear) guilty_gear_strive rating:general to see which posts this would affect.

This would also remove the otoko no ko, male focus, and crossdressing tags from these posts.

SFW means rating:G, so nothing with a penis or bulge visible. Compare with bridget_(guilty_gear) guilty_gear_strive -rating:g to see which posts would not be tagged as a girl.

Please read the thread to see all the pros and cons of this idea. It's been discussed at length so all that's left is to put it to a vote.

...i tried

evazion said:

As for the idea of tagging Bridget as transgender, once again, I'm not against it, but people still haven't answered basic questions about how it should work. If you support this idea, please answer these questions:

• Do we tag every single Bridget post as transgender, or only Strive posts, or only Strive posts where Bridget is overtly depicted as transgender (with the trans flag, with trans colors, etc)?
• What do we call the tag? transgender? transgender (mtf) and transgender (ftm) (is the term "MtF" transphobic)? transgirl and transboy?
• Do we remove the otoko no ko tag if we tag Bridget as transgender? Keep in mind otoko no ko is one of the most searched-for tags on the site.
• Do we replace yaoi with something like transgirl with male? Keep in mind yaoi is one of the most blacklisted tags on the site, and those people won't be happy if this suddenly evades their blacklist.
• What about all the other male-gendered tags used for Bridget? What do we do with things like male pubic hair, male masturbation, topless male, toned male, etc? We either keep using tags like male pubic hair on Bridget even though we're saying she's a transgirl, or we end up with tags like transgirl pubic hair or male-presenting pubic hair, which is just... no.

Here's what I think about these, personally:

• If otoko no ko characters are always tagged as that until proven otherwise, regardless of whether it matters or not, I assume transgender characters would be the same way. There are separate tags for situations where it does matter (the flag, gender transitioning, newhalf, etc.). Only thinking about GGS Bridget here, since she wasn't canonically trans in any other game.
• I tend to think transgender (mtf) and transgender (ftm) purely because they're in line with our genderswap tags. Easy to remember. If that's a problem and it ends up being too confusing or something, trans boy and trans girl work too.
• Whether people still want Bridget in their otoko no ko searches has been contested before. I suggested a pool so people could opt in or out of seeing very androgynous trans/futa/newhalf characters that tick all the right boxes. Failing that, we could just allow people to use otoko no ko alongside trans tags for utility reasons, even if that is a bit messy.
• I was about to say we don't really need to have both newhalf and a separate trans girl gender at the same time, no need to reinvent the wheel and such, but then topic #22189 happened. I will say that one benefit of collapsing everything into newhalf is that people are likely to have already blacklisted futanari if they don't like it.
• Likewise, when it comes to the other male/female tags, we decided that newhalf counts as a female, so I see no problem carrying that logic over. (It could be an issue if we mismatch 1boy and trans girl tags - which one gets precedence? - but we'll cross that bridge if we get to it...)

These stats may be useful to this situation, since we're often questioning whether Bridget stuff is "male" or "gay". Over 90% of all straight and gay men are disinterested in trans women, while the people who are interested are overwhelmingly bisexual. We should keep in mind that Danbooru in 2022 has way more gay users than it used to.