Hibari Oozora- gender

Images of Hibari Oozora from Stop!! Hibari-kun! are mistagged. They're labeled as 1boy etc but in the source material she's clearly written as a transgender girl- she insists she's a girl, hides her biological sex from people at school, etc. When I tried to change the tags they were reverted. I've found some other evidence of trans characters tagged with the wrong gender too now I look, too, but it's not consistent for all of them. Is there anything about this in the tagging guidelines? I can't find anything.

Unfortunately, people really like their otokonokos around here. I agree with you that Hibari's probably intended to be a transgender girl, but if there's any way to interpret a character as a crossdressing boy, taggers will probably do so.

Isn't there any sort of official policy for how to handle transgender characters? (And there is no 'probably', the mangaka explicitly described her as such in an interview.)

Terpomo11 said:

Isn't there any sort of official policy for how to handle transgender characters? (And there is no 'probably', the mangaka explicitly described her as such in an interview.)

Oh, okay. I haven't read the interview - good to know.

There's no official policy on this as far as I know. There probably should be, but I'd foresee a lot of wank coming from it. :\

What do you mean by 'wank'? Sorry, I'm new here.

Terpomo11 said:

What do you mean by 'wank'? Sorry, I'm new here.

The Wank is a mountain in southern Germany, situated in the Loisach valley close to the Austrian border in the southwestern Ester Mountains range near Garmisch-Partenkirchen. It rises from about 700 metres (2,300 ft) above mean sea level up to 1,780 metres (5,840 ft) at the summit.

Terpomo11 said:

What do you mean by 'wank'? Sorry, I'm new here.

Nah, I'm just old - it's internet slang from like the 2000s. I meant drama/discourse/arguing. :P

Is "let's not misgender trans characters" really likely to be that controversial around here? It seems like a pretty straightforward thing.

The_Bob said:

Unfortunately, people really like their otokonokos around here. I agree with you that Hibari's probably intended to be a transgender girl, but if there's any way to interpret a character as a crossdressing boy, taggers will probably do so.

If there's one thing I've learned in my time on this site, it's that anime fans who fetishize crossdressing boys are extremely touchy about anyone tagging the objects of their desire as girls, even when they're drawn to look indistinguishable from girls.

Terpomo11 said:

Is "let's not misgender trans characters" really likely to be that controversial around here? It seems like a pretty straightforward thing.

It's been discussed before and never really got anywhere (topic #19046), mainly because of Danbooru's "tag what you see, not what you know" policy. That was a while ago, though, so who knows. Go for it.

Wouldn't that policy imply that any otokonoko character whose sex isn't obvious from the picture should be tagged as a girl? And how would I go about going for it? Again, sorry, new here.

Terpomo11 said:

Is "let's not misgender trans characters" really likely to be that controversial around here? It seems like a pretty straightforward thing.

The whole purpose of tagging, as well as "tag what you see, not what you know", is to help people find what they're looking for and to prevent people from entering a search and getting something completely different.

Futanari, otoko, and transgender characters are often a wrench in this goal, but there's a point where we have to be a bit cold and ignore canon. post #1786727, as an example, was once tag warred with people trying to tag it yaoi. If you searched yaoi and got that, you probably won't come back to the site.

The current standard (not stating any of my own opinions here on any of this: just what it is at the moment) is that transgender characters like Hoshikawa Lily and Suirenji Kiyoharu are tagged as "girl" if no male parts are visible, but as "boy" if they are. Otokonoko are always tagged as "boy" if it is canonically known. Whether a specific character is the former or latter for tagging purposes can come to disagreement.

Ultimately most people come to danbooru to look at fetish art. Looking at oozora hibari's art, almost every post where the lower body is visible shows a bulge. That's not what people are looking for when they search for 1girl.

Of course futanari goes against this too, but that's why futanari is one of the most blacklisted tags on site. Adding yet another tag for women with dicks and asking everyone to blacklist that too is not feasible.

I don't think post #4366971 or post #4056848 are what someone searching 1boy is looking for either, so the same standard as for the characters mentioned above should apply here too in my opinion.

Yeah, I agree with you there. Without a character tag I'd just tag those 1girl.

EB said:

The current standard (not stating any of my own opinions here on any of this: just what it is at the moment) is that transgender characters like Hoshikawa Lily and Suirenji Kiyoharu are tagged as "girl" if no male parts are visible, but as "boy" if they are.

I thought that agreeent had only been reached for Lily because her true gender is a spoiler, a special case that was even stated should not be used as a precedent.

EB said:

The current standard (not stating any of my own opinions here on any of this: just what it is at the moment) is that transgender characters like Hoshikawa Lily and Suirenji Kiyoharu are tagged as "girl" if no male parts are visible, but as "boy" if they are. Otokonoko are always tagged as "boy" if it is canonically known. Whether a specific character is the former or latter for tagging purposes can come to disagreement.

But isn't the latter inconsistent with the 'tag what you see, not what you know' policy? Most of them have nothing obviously visually distinguishing them from flat-chested girls, if clothed.

nonamethanks said:

Ultimately most people come to danbooru to look at fetish art. Looking at oozora hibari's art, almost every post where the lower body is visible shows a bulge. That's not what people are looking for when they search for 1girl.

Of course futanari goes against this too, but that's why futanari is one of the most blacklisted tags on site. Adding yet another tag for women with dicks and asking everyone to blacklist that too is not feasible.

Given 'newhalf' implicates 'futanari' couldn't one just treat trans female characters without obvious breasts as flat-chested newhalves? The word is literally a Japanese slang term for trans women, after all.

Terpomo11 said:

But isn't the latter inconsistent with the 'tag what you see, not what you know' policy? Most of them have nothing obviously visually distinguishing them from flat-chested girls, if clothed.

"twys" more than anything is a strongly preferred guideline, not an unbending rule. It would actually cause more problems if we didn't have a few exceptions, and besides, if we rejected the concept of "otokonokos" then we'd experience constant arguments and tag wars over tagging characters like Astolfo as girls despite canonically being guys.

Given 'newhalf' implicates 'futanari' couldn't one just treat trans female characters without obvious breasts as flat-chested newhalves? The word is literally a Japanese slang term for trans women, after all.

Do you mean we should tag them as newhalf, which would also tag them as futanari? If you're goal was to cause a neverending shitstorm over mislabeling trans people as futas, I couldn't suggest a better way to do it.

In general there is no visual difference between a flat chested newhalf and an otoko no ko, so the otoko no ko tag gets priority by TWYS. I could even say that newhalf are technically otoko no ko with breasts. If the character has noticeable breasts, newhalf usually get the priority (unless it's manboobs).
Not saying that I agree or that this is my view IRL, it's just how danbooru tagging works.