alias silver_hair -> grey_hair

BUR #6477 has been rejected.

create alias silver_hair -> grey_hair

"Silver" is quite literally just "grey with a metallic sheen". Keeping these tags separate is ridiculous. They're being used interchangeably for the most part, according to the uploader's preference. You can't honestly tell me posts like post #4683578 or post #4683475 don't qualify as grey. There is already enough subjectivity in determining colors without having two separate tags for the same color. A search for silver_hair grey_hair solo will show that many uploaders either can't tell the difference or just don't care enough. silver eyes was already aliased to grey eyes for similar reasons in topic #18927.

Additionally, there seems to be this association between grey hair and old age. This is a completely irrelevant argument. Whether or not there is an assocation to be made between the color and the age of anime girls should have no bearing on the fact that the base color is still grey.

Provence said in forum #190506:

Strongly against silver hair -> grey hair.

Since for hair, silver suggests something more shiny and elegant, while grey is more for dull-looking hair.

"Shiny" is already its own tag. There's no reason to have a tag to serve solely as a grey_hair shiny_hair search. Grey is the color, the shine is separate.

How often does the tag get searched since that seems to be what more or less decides if a tag is kept or not?

Unbreakable said:

How often does the tag get searched since that seems to be what more or less decides if a tag is kept or not?

It's irrelevant because it's an alias and not a nuke.

Talulah said:

It's irrelevant because it's an alias and not a nuke.

No, if people search for it it means they like the difference.

If silver hair is just grey hair + shiny hair, shouldn't we make a mass update first to tag every silver hair image with shiny hair too? Or we would maybe lose a lot of information I guess. I think not every silver hair image is shiny hair too, but mostly because of mistags etc. I still think it's better to clean it up from [[grey_hair shiny_hair}} this end instead of having to tag it all up from the start.

The actual count for this:
Post count for silver_hair -shiny_hair: 304970

The problem with that is that silver hair is not shiny grey hair, it's just grey hair for people who don't want to use grey hair.

Guaro said:

If silver hair is just grey hair + shiny hair, shouldn't we make a mass update first to tag every silver hair image with shiny hair too?

That would be awful imo since I don't tag silver_hair based on if it's shiny, I tag silver if it's closer to white_hair, and grey_hair if it's a darker shade, and I'm sure other people tag it the same way. It's subjective too. For example I would often tag Nazrin with grey_hair and Sagume/Mokou with silver_hair.

I still support this alias, because silver is grey, and not everyone tags it based on lightness so it's too inconsistent.

nonamethanks said:

The problem with that is that silver hair is not shiny grey hair, it's just grey hair for people who don't want to use grey hair.

I don't really don't like the silver hair tag as it is, but if we simply alias it without working on the tag before, I have to -1 it. (Not that I know that no one is gonna check 300k images.)
I just checked the tag itself and I also noticed that it the tag was completely misused for a lot, even pink hair, white hair, etc. So simply aliasing it and flooding the grey_hair tag because of that isn't better at all.

It's *color hair for people who don't want to figure out whether it's grey hair or light blue hair or light purple hair or white hair or pink hair or light brown hair... etc. with eyedropper hunting, especially when the same hair can have nearly all the above colors but varying in shade very subtly from the top to the sides to the tips (all these slightly-varying shades are supposed to impart a metallic-seeming hue to the hair). Unless we want all of these to get multicolored hair and then all the other hair colors tagged.

Just take a look at post #4679461. Most people would call it "silver". Hunting down with an eyedropper will see the hair varying from white near the top (#f8f5fe), to light purple near the bangs (#8e87a8), to greyish-blue near the sides (#827b99).

NNescio said:

Just take a look at post #4679461. Most people would call it "silver". Hunting down with an eyedropper will see the hair varying from white near the top (#f8f5fe), to light purple near the bangs (#8e87a8), to greyish-blue near the sides (#827b99).

Pretty sure most people would call that purple. It's not silver at all.

Talulah said:

Pretty sure most people would call that purple. It's not silver at all.

I could call it silver. Sometimes it is difficult to draw the line between colors, specially in cases likes this, and uploaders will just use the first color tag that comes to mind.

And stuff like post #4679461, post #4525192, post #673521 is what you get lumped under grey hair if you simply alias those both tags. Those are only the hard cases of mistagging, there are a lot of simple white hair images and all those NNescio mentioned. It's really way more simple to nuke the silver hair tag and then alias it to grey hair IMO. I don't really care what happens to the tag itself, I just don't think that taking one bad tag and push all the bad tagging to another hair tag is solving anything.

mongirlfan said:

I could call it silver. Sometimes it is difficult to draw the line between colors, specially in cases likes this, and uploaders will just use the first color tag that comes to mind.

That looks like pale lilac (purple) to me tbh

Well, then this: post #4539629.

Without silver hair... tag grey, white, light_purple or light_blue? Tag all of them and then with multicolored hair and gradient hair on top?

__

For me, silver hair represent an anime (and fictional-drawn character) trope of silver-haired characters that is usually drawn using alternating/gradient shades of whites and greys and then tinged with blues and purples. I see it, I know it's intended to be a representation of silvery-looking hair and I tag it accordingly. Otherwise I'll have to struggle to figure out which color tag to use.

There's also the crayola silver/silver pink colors which are "sliver" (white-ish or grey-ish) tinged with reds and oranges. These have to be tagged with something like light brown hair or pink hair otherwise, and it can be hard to tell which one is closer without dragging an eyedropper and checking the color codes in a palette.

It's also easier to search for the "silver hair" anime hair trope that way with the silver_hair tag present. Search silver_hair, exclude problematic characters/copyrights if necessary in successive searches, done. Meanwhile without silver_hair I'll have to do something like a shiny_hair ~grey_hair ~white_hair ~light_blue_hair ~light_purple_hair ~light_brown_hair search and hope that people tag shiny_hair for those. And a lot of them kinda have very subtle 'sheens' and 'gloss' and might not be tagged shiny_hair anyway even for people aware of the tag.

NNescio said:

Well, then this: post #4539629.

Without silver hair... tag grey, white, light_purple or light_blue? Tag all of them and then with multicolored hair and gradient hair on top?

Still purple.

Guaro said:

And stuff like post #4679461, post #4525192, post #673521 is what you get lumped under grey hair if you simply alias those both tags. Those are only the hard cases of mistagging, there are a lot of simple white hair images and all those NNescio mentioned. It's really way more simple to nuke the silver hair tag and then alias it to grey hair IMO. I don't really care what happens to the tag itself, I just don't think that taking one bad tag and push all the bad tagging to another hair tag is solving anything.

To nuke and then alias seems like a better solution imo.

Talulah said:

Still purple.

Multiple bands of whites at #fefefe and greater on the right side (even when not directly in light), entire sheets of cyans around #99bbee on the bottom left, still purple?

NNescio said:

Well, then this: post #4539629.

I usually don't go by the light or dark strands of hair while tagging, that's why I'd go with the part with noticeable color which is leftmost and rightmost strands, therefore would tag it purple. The others parts are just lighting and shadows for me.

I agree on nuke + alias, it's just too much of a mess to garden manually

Sometimes it was difficult for me to determine where silver, and where is the other shade. More often eminent sererbry with signs of metal gloss. If think, then silver can be matte, then such a definition does not fit. It is doubtful that users will always read Wiki to search for the context of the tag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_(color)

Silver or metallic gray is a color tone resembling gray that is a representation of the color of polished silver.

A matte grey color could also be used to represent silver.

I doubt you need to do immediately alias. Most likely, you will have to destroy the tag first, then create an alias. After that, appoint posts separately "shiny" hair, combining with other color tags, including overflowing colors (multicolored?).