Multiple bands of whites at #fefefe and greater on the right side (even when not directly in light), entire sheets of cyans around #99bbee on the bottom left, still purple?
People don't look at individual subsections of an object to determine its color, they view it on the whole. This also applies to hair. The hair looks purple. It doesn't matter if this strand is blue or that strand is red, it's purple. Obviously this doesn't apply when there are multiple distinct colors as with streaked hair, but it does when the hair all blends together in a gradient of sort.
And stuff like post #4679461, post #4525192, post #673521 is what you get lumped under grey hair if you simply alias those both tags. Those are only the hard cases of mistagging, there are a lot of simple white hair images and all those NNescio mentioned. It's really way more simple to nuke the silver hair tag and then alias it to grey hair IMO. I don't really care what happens to the tag itself, I just don't think that taking one bad tag and push all the bad tagging to another hair tag is solving anything.
mongirlfan said:
To nuke and then alias seems like a better solution imo.
Mexiguy said:
I agree on nuke + alias, it's just too much of a mess to garden manually
If people still tag non grey_hair examples with silver_hair (and into grey_hair) after all the above... then unalias and nuke it again and turn it into an ambiguous tag.
Nuking as it is means a lot of characters suddenly losing their hair color tags that may be hard to track down for gardening (especially in mixed examples with other characters).
Aliasing as it is means a lot of non-grey hair examples suddenly entering grey hair.
I found a very interesting discussion from 4 years ago, and I don't know if evazion still has this opinion, but I simply quote it for everyone, from topic #13860 His point was that we should have more light_* and dark_* hair tags here.
evazion said: Regarding silver hair: in theory, there's a difference between silver hair and grey hair. In reality, silver hair is a hopeless mess. Just browse silver_hair. On the first couple pages I see everything from black (post #2673402) to grey (post #2672066) to white (post #2672463) to pink (post #2672626) to purple (post #2671476) to lavender (post #2672127) to blue (post #2672926) to blonde (post #2672447).
It's worthless, it includes nearly every color there is. A lot of this is only because we don't have tags for things like light blue, so everything gets lumped under silver.
and Renim
NWF Renim said: Silver hair and gray hair were once one tag for about 2 years. They're separate tags again because having them as one also failed (they were separated again like 7 years ago). As such, even if it's a "mess", I would not support trying to purge one or merge the tags together, since doing that also has proven to not be the correct solution either.
I found a very interesting discussion from 4 years ago, and I don't know if evazion still has this opinion, but I simply quote it for everyone, from topic #13860 His point was that we should have more light_* and dark_* hair tags here. [...]
Isn't this a similar case with silver eyes vs grey eyes? Eye colors were all over the place for silver_eyes but it was still merged to grey_eyes. I think the issue with this hair alias is that hair color is more prominent in an image/for a character than eye color, so there is more resistance with making a change. We also have more light_* & dark_* hair colors than eye colors.
Also related, CodeKyuubi mentioned in forum #190571 how monitors can affect colors, which would explain some mistaggings if light colors with less saturation may look silver/grey to people who have improperly calibrated monitors. I noticed how colors looked slightly different when using different laptops and an external monitor, but it wasn't so drastic so as to perceive light blue as silver/grey for instance.
Isn't this a similar case with silver eyes vs grey eyes? Eye colors were all over the place for silver_eyes but it was still merged to grey_eyes. I think the issue with this hair alias is that hair color is more prominent in an image/for a character than eye color, so there is more resistance with making a change. We also have more light_* & dark_* hair colors than eye colors.
Though personally, I didn't mind it that much as for hair, which was why I didn't object to the earlier alias. And one doesn't get a lot of colored areas with varying tinges and shades for eyes either, unlike for hair. Lighting conditions generally also don't affect the apparent color of eyes (other than making them more obvious in darkness if there's at least a slight glow to the eyes).
yyflandre said:
Also related, CodeKyuubi mentioned in forum #190571 how monitors can affect colors, which would explain some mistaggings if light colors with less saturation may look silver/grey to people who have improperly calibrated monitors. I noticed how colors looked slightly different when using different laptops and an external monitor, but it wasn't so drastic so as to perceive light blue as silver/grey for instance.
Admittedly my monitor's colors are kinda whacked a bit (unless I turn the brightness all the way up), which is why I sometimes have to rely on eyedropping color codes when I am unsure.
I found a very interesting discussion from 4 years ago, and I don't know if evazion still has this opinion, but I simply quote it for everyone, from topic #13860 His point was that we should have more light_* and dark_* hair tags here.
Then at minimum the name should be changed to light grey hair. "Silver" is too prone to mistags, as the usage of the tag shows.
The answer to that is to DM the uploader and get them to stop. Keeping a bad tag around because people misuse it is not a healthy way to approach the problem.
Hair is a pretty important characteristic for anime characters. Grey to me indicates something matt, while silver means something shiny. That's a pretty big difference, especially when it comes to the color grey, but also yellow and blonde (blonde is just shiny yellow and it always seems off to tag matt yellow hair with blonde, but I digress). Silver hair is way bigger than grey hair, and as it was indicated, we would only shove the amount of mistagging to the grey hair tag instead. That's not fixing anything.
Then at minimum the name should be changed to light grey hair. "Silver" is too prone to mistags, as the usage of the tag shows.
This will lead to a tag that's a mix of white hair and grey hair, but I think it would be a way better solution. In the end we will have a discussion in 1 or 2 years where we have to decide if the new tag is needed, but I would rather agree to this, than to the BUR as it is right now.
The fact that this is even a topic of debate is ridiculous. These are two tags for the same color; it shouldn't matter whether it's shiny or not. Imagine if people started using emerald_hair for shiny green hair, or silver_legwear for shiny grey legwear.
We use "grey_x" for all other tags that describe this color, so that's what we should use for the hair color tag too. This alias gets a hard, throbbing +1 from me.
The fact that this is even a topic of debate is ridiculous. These are two tags for the same color; it shouldn't matter whether it's shiny or not. Imagine if people started using emerald_hair for shiny green hair, or silver_legwear for shiny grey legwear.
We use "grey_x" for all other tags that describe this color, so that's what we should use for the hair color tag too. This alias gets a hard, throbbing +1 from me.
That's because "green" usually isn't associated with old age.
So the argument goes back to people not wanting to use "grey hair" for young characters, rather than legitimate arguments on colors.
In the end, those two arguments are intertwined but not quite identical: Older characters are usually drawn with matt hair regardless of hair color (I'm rather for nuking shiny hair). But "grey" is also associated irl with old age.
