Donmai

Kazuha Genshin Impact Tag

Posted under Tags

BUR #6132 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias kazuha_(genshin_impact) -> kaedehara_kazuha

Sorry for reopening the can of worms that is Genshin tagging, but I'm changing Kazuha's tag to be more consistent with its in-game appearance. The general consensus was to use firstname_(genshin_impact) tags because the majority of the cast only used their first name in-game, and the few with full names generally only have them revealed in obscure flavor text that most players wouldn't read.

However, Kazuha's full name, Kaedehara Kazuha is used for all his appearances in the game, including the menus, main UI, and pull screen. See this screenshot for the general UI and this one for the pull screen. Also worth noting that while the Genshin wiki generally only uses the characters' first names for their pages, their page for Kazuha uses his full name.

It's likely future Inazuma characters will have the same naming convention, so it's best we figure out how to treat their tags while there's just one to deal with for now.

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basedheero said:

It's likely future Inazuma characters will have the same naming convention, so it's best we figure out how to treat their tags while there's just one to deal with for now.

Probably the case, I think we'll get confirmation of this soon enough with Ayaka - but regardless in Kazuha's case his full name is stapled literally everywhere, so.

Edit: the newly released 2.0 trailer (as well as her gameplay demo trailer) seems to confirm that Ayaka will follow the same pattern, and introduces her as Kamisato Ayaka.

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It was something that was passed already. Despite you not agreeing with it. Just like you argue against consistency, I argue against this sense of correctness when no one is actually going to call them by their whole name. Everyone will refer to Kaedehara Kazuha as Kazuha. Same thing for Ayaka.

We are acting like this forum topic never existed in the first place topic #18638

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.Dank said:

It was something that was passed already. Despite you not agreeing with it. Just like you argue against consistency, I argue against this sense of correctness when no one is actually going to call them by their whole name. Everyone will refer to Kaedehara Kazuha as Kazuha. Same thing for Ayaka.

We are acting like this forum topic never existed in the first place topic #18638

That thread was an argument over characters whose full names aren't plastered all over the game and official media. It was more about recognizability at the end of the day, not consistency. The first thing anyone who googles Kazuha will see is his wiki page saying Kaedehara Kazuha in big bold letters, and anyone who plays the game will see his full name everywhere.

.Dank said:

It was something that was passed already. Despite you not agreeing with it. Just like you argue against consistency, I argue against this sense of correctness when no one is actually going to call them by their whole name. Everyone will refer to Kaedehara Kazuha as Kazuha. Same thing for Ayaka.

We are acting like this forum topic never existed in the first place topic #18638

That topic was about characters whose full names are not very well known because they are hidden here or there, not characters whose full names are front and centre everywhere including in the game itself. Those two things aren't nearly the same situation, and sticking with firstname_(qualifier) would be completely arbitrary in the cases of characters like this whose full names are prominently on display everywhere. If tags are going to be based strictly on the fact that people are usually going to call them by their first names, should we start renaming 95% of our existing chartags to firstname_(qualifier)? Again this isn't something we do elsewhere, why should we do it for Genshin Impact?

Also, just because something is already passed doesn't mean it can't be changed again, things aren't frozen forever if they've been decided once.

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It wasn't just about characters who aren't well known.

Again, an argument I will keep bringing up is the fact that the first name and qualifier will tell any user trying to tag or search for it more than full name for the sake of correctness. I'm not very good as explaining my case so I'll just quote Evazion onto something I wholeheartedly agree on.

Evazion said:

It's just confusing when you see a Genshin Impact post and you see some characters are named like firstname_(genshin_impact), others are named like firstname_lastname, and you have no idea why. Why does Lisa Minci have a last name but not Ganyu (Genshin Impact)? Why does Ganyu (Genshin Impact) have a qualifier but not Lisa Minci? It's not obvious why. It's easy to think that a tag like Lisa Minci isn't a Genshin character when she isn't named like the other characters.

Honestly, even in regards to that quote I ultimately still don't see why this is a problem in one franchise and not in any other, or just like, a problem at all. Chartags are about characters, not the franchise they belong to unless there's a specific need to associate character with franchise (disambiguation). Wikipedia does the same thing and only qualifies articles about people when there's a need to disambiguate them from other people with the same name eg. Nicolas Cage is just "Nicolas Cage" not "Nicolas Cage (actor)" (though granted Wikipedia isn't an imageboard with thorough tagging, but their common name policy did understandably get brought up last time.)

I dunno, post #1915925's taglist isn't particularly confusing just because some tags are qualified and others aren't. Neither is post #663160 or post #4645091 or post #3311767 or post #3318076 or post #983300 or post #3168832... or post #4661411.

Why does Winry Rockbell have a full name but not Paninya_(fma) and why does Paninya have a qualifier but not Winry? What about Kishin Sagume and Junko (Touhou)? Or Kiana Kaslana and Ai-chan (Honkai Impact)? And what about Misaka Mikoto and Index (Toaru Majutsu No Index)? Or Watahashi Yasumi and Sasaki (Suzumiya Haruhi)? Or Edelgard Von Hresvelg and Azura (Fire Emblem)?
... Why does Kaedehara Kazuha have a full name but not Beidou_(Genshin_Impact) and why does Beidou have a qualifier but not Kazuha? It's the same as it's always been, in virtually every franchise. Some characters have full names, and others don't; and when they don't, they often need qualifiers to be unambiguous. If this is something that has become confusing now, then it's confusing everywhere and not just in Genshin Impact. It would make sense to qualify everything in a franchise like Fate or Azur Lane whose characters are largely (or entirely) based on actual shit that exists and can be reused by other franchises, but a completely original thing like Genshin Impact? What makes it so different than pretty much every other copyright on the site where some characters have full names and some have single names? What makes it any more confusing than the rest, that all its characters NEED to be qualified, even as unambiguous as Kaedehara Kazuha or Kamisato Ayaka?

And unlike Jean/Barbara/Mona/etc, with these characters in particular, you play the game, the full name is in your face; you don't play the game and google "genshin [name]", the full name is in your face. Even googling (or bing'ing, as a matter of fact) JUST "kazuha" or "ayaka" without having Genshin there STILL plasters the full name in your face. This is even less a problem when their names are in JP order, since with aliases if you just type "kazuha" you get the proper tag suggested anyway (which wasn't the case for the Mondstadt characters before due to the workings of the autocomplete system and their name being obsure "what the hell is a Barbara Pegg" etc etc).

Astolfo said:

Why does Winry Rockbell have a full name but not Paninya_(fma) and why does Paninya have a qualifier but not Winry? What about Kishin Sagume and Junko (Touhou)? Or Kiana Kaslana and Ai-chan (Honkai Impact)? And what about Misaka Mikoto and Index (Toaru Majutsu No Index)? Or Watahashi Yasumi and Sasaki (Suzumiya Haruhi)? Or Edelgard Von Hresvelg and Azura (Fire Emblem)?
... Why does Kaedehara Kazuha have a full name but not Beidou_(Genshin_Impact) and why does Beidou have a qualifier but not Kazuha? It's the same as it's always been, in virtually every franchise. Some characters have full names, and others don't; and when they don't, they often need qualifiers to be unambiguous. If this is something that has become confusing now, then it's confusing everywhere and not just in Genshin Impact. It would make sense to qualify everything in a franchise like Fate or Azur Lane whose characters are largely (or entirely) based on actual shit that exists and can be reused by other franchises, but a completely original thing like Genshin Impact? What makes it so different than pretty much every other copyright on the site where some characters have full names and some have single names? What makes it any more confusing than the rest, that all its characters NEED to be qualified, even as unambiguous as Kaedehara Kazuha or Kamisato Ayaka?

And unlike Jean/Barbara/Mona/etc, with these characters in particular, you play the game, the full name is in your face; you don't play the game and google "genshin [name]", the full name is in your face. Even googling (or bing'ing, as a matter of fact) JUST "kazuha" or "ayaka" without having Genshin there STILL plasters the full name in your face. This is even less a problem when their names are in JP order, since with aliases if you just type "kazuha" you get the proper tag suggested anyway (which wasn't the case for the Mondstadt characters before due to the workings of the autocomplete system and their name being obsure "what the hell is a Barbara Pegg" etc etc).

EXACTLY. I mean, qualifiers were supposed to be used when a character name conflicts with another or sounds ambiguous, which may cause confusion (like how its explained on howto:character, and also how Wikipedia does). However, this changed with gacha games apparently, in which virtually every characters gets qualifier even when it's not needed.

For gacha games like Kantai Collection, Azur Lane, Umamusume, Kemono Friends and the Fate series, its understanble that almost every character will get a qualifier because their names aren't originals, they are based on existing ships/animals/historical and fantasy figures, etc.. But, other games like Arknights and Genshin Impact inherited this approach of naming character tags and every one of them gets qualified even when their entire cast are 100% original characers, with a good number of them having pretty unique names that doesn't sound ambigous or conflict with other tags at all. For these copyrights, qualifiers gained a new use which is to help users to recognize characters specially by how they are referred in their games, as noted in topic #18638. However they are the exception, not the rule to how Danbooru operates when naming character tags. Its like gacha games have a unique naming convention that is different from the rest of the copyrights in Danbooru.

And just because a character has qualifier, it doesn't mean that the rest of the cast should have as well. This approach was used in topic #18239 for Mega Man tags and it just looks disastrous. Tons of character that in more than a decade never needed qualifiers, never conflicted with other tags and never sounded ambiguous just got unnecessary qualifiers because... yes? Seriously, every case should be carefully analyzed. Like how we are doing it right now in this topic and others.

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