serval_girl, caracal_girl, etc.

BUR #5869 has been rejected.

create implication serval_girl -> cat_girl
create implication caracal_girl -> cat_girl
create implication lynx_girl -> cat_girl

I don't necessarily think these tags need to be removed, but these are all "small cats", and proportionate to cat_girl the applications of the tags are pretty small (and almost exclusively applied to the respective kemono_friends characters, who are also already in the cat_girl tag).

I didn't include lion_girl or tiger_girl because while it would make sense to me, those tags are a fair bit larger, around ~1000 posts. I'd be happy to add them if nobody thinks that's a problem, though.

On a related note, the actual animal tags like serval are also very inconsistent. Should they be applied to personifications? Or, since the serval_girl tag exists, should it be used exclusively to refer to the unaltered animal?

Hold on, there's also leopard_girl and jaguar_girl, and probably more, I haven't gone through the whole *_girl list. Same question, though: do people want those excluded when they search for cat_girl? Or would it make sense to include them?

It's something I've been meaning to get around to, but yeah.

There's a huge amount of <animal>_girl, ear, tail, etc. tags tat exist solely because a Kemono Friend character got uploaded. We have stuff like aardwolf_ears that exist solely for aardwolf_(kemono_friends). There's an insane amount of 2-3 image tags like that, most of them made by one or two users going on tag panic sprees.

Actual animal tags should only be used for the actual animal, but they're often used as tag padding with KF.

A ton of them could be aliased out. If a tag like that is functionally a character tag (and undertagged for most), it shouldn't exist. Even the Serval part tags could probably go. Major overarching ones like lion and tiger are probably fine, but ultra-specific parts are silly. We've already gotten rid of things like reindeer.

Post count for serval_ears: 5688
Post count for serval_ears -kemono_friends: 5

Not sure how I feel about this BUR yet, but should serval_ears imply cat_ears? Should caracal_tail imply cat_tail? Should hyena_girl imply dog_girl? Probably should be dealt with at the same time.

Side note which probably deserves its own topic: why do have a leopard_tail but not snow_leopard_tail when Silverash for example has a tail that's very clearly visually identifiable as a snow leopard tail? Especially since snow leopards do not descend from leopards and they're actually closer related to tigers. 449 of the 709 Leopard_tail posts are Silverash and his sisters.

Veradux said:
There's a huge amount of <animal>_girl, ear, tail, etc. tags tat exist solely because a Kemono Friend character got uploaded. We have stuff like aardwolf_ears that exist solely for aardwolf_(kemono_friends). There's an insane amount of 2-3 image tags like that, most of them made by one or two users going on tag panic sprees.

There's the KF problem of tiny niche *ears tags for each character which will never be used again for any other copyright. Then there's also the arknights problem of people tagging every Angelina and Suzuran post with fox_ears when hardly anyone really knows what makes a pair of animal ears fox_ears as opposed to some other race. I do it myself because its the convention we've established, but I'm a little uneasy about it.

CormacM said:

Not sure how I feel about this BUR yet, but should serval_ears imply cat_ears? Should caracal_tail imply cat_tail? Should hyena_girl imply dog_girl? Probably should be dealt with at the same time.

That would just turn them into even more of padding tags than they already are.

CormacM said:
Especially since snow leopards do not descend from leopards and they're actually closer related to tigers.

At the risk of being a dick:
I genuinely don't care. If we start basing tags off genus and whatnot, they'll turn into an insane spaghetti mess of "uhm ahckutally" and unusability.

CormacM said:

I do it myself because its the convention we've established, but I'm a little uneasy about it.

If people who don't know the copyright or character can confidently ag them as such, it's probably fine.

-1
Cat girl should be for girls based on domestic cats (or just generic cat girls), not for every feline girl.

Veradux said:

At the risk of being a dick:
I genuinely don't care. If we start basing tags off genus and whatnot, they'll turn into an insane spaghetti mess of "uhm ahckutally" and unusability.

My main point is that this is a case of you actually can tell a snow leopard tail apart from a leopard tail without knowing the canonical race of the character, and the evolutionary tree also suggests they shouldn't be lumped together. So there's no reason whatsoever to arbitrarily lump them together in the same tag unless they're lumped together under cat_tail. Which I'm not really against.

If people who don't know the copyright or character can confidently ag them as such, it's probably fine.

The problem is that they can't. They either have to know the copyright, or check back through previous posts to see what has usually been done in the past and copy that. That's not ideal.

CormacM said:

Then there's also the arknights problem of people tagging every Angelina and Suzuran post with fox_ears when hardly anyone really knows what makes a pair of animal ears fox_ears as opposed to some other race. I do it myself because its the convention we've established, but I'm a little uneasy about it.

Why exactly is this an Arknights issue when arknights + fox_ears only consists of like 2% of the fox ears tag? If you can't tell the difference between wolf and fox then yes you will either have to omit the more specific tag or reference other posts. This applies whether it's arknights, original, or any other copyright.

As for the KF tags, if having serval ears and serval tail for the 5 posts that aren't Serval is unwanted, they should probably just be nuked and not aliased. They're definitely too distinctive to be lumped in with anything else. I don't know every KF character, but I imagine this would apply to others as well.

I'm with Veradux, most of them are pretty useless and end up as just padding, they should be aliased to their more common counterpart if possible.

BUR #5870 has been rejected.

mass update serval_girl -> cat_girl
mass update serval_ears -> cat_ears
mass update serval_tail -> cat_tail
mass update caracal_girl -> cat_girl
mass update caracal_ears -> cat_ears
mass update caracal_tail -> cat_tail
mass update lynx_girl -> cat_girl
mass update lynx_ears -> cat_ears
mass update lynx_tail -> cat_tail
mass update ocelot_girl -> cat_girl
mass update ocelot_ears -> cat_ears
mass update ocelot_tail -> cat_tail

Ok, so if I'm reading the room right, we'd rather just get rid of these super-niche tags and replace them with the more generic ones than to use an implication. And it sounds like since lions and tigers have more distinctive features, we'd want to keep them separate.

edit: updated to get rid of nuke, and add ocelot to the small cat updates

Nuke is not necessary after a mass update.

Aside from that, I don't have a solution on this issue, but I don't think just nuking them and forgetting about them is the right one.

I disagree with Veradux, you won't be able to find furry characters by their species anymore if you get rid of them. If you so much insist to get rid of these tails, you might as well rename cat tail to feline tail.

Again, serval looks nothing like a cat. Most lynxes don't either, nor do caracal ears. You could make the case for ocelots I guess, but the others definitely do not belong in the cat-egory.

Zupi said:

I disagree with Veradux, you won't be able to find furry characters by their species anymore if you get rid of them. If you so much insist to get rid of cat tail, you might as well rename it to feline tail.

In that case, do you think it would be best to use

imply [species]_girl -> cat_girl

and

update [species]_tail -> cat_tail

instead?

I don't have much of an opinion on nuking anything that isn't distinguishably unique, but I wouldn't get rid of things like lynx tail, it looks nothing like a typical cat's tail.

DownWithTheThickness said:

In that case, do you think it would be best to use

imply [species]_girl -> cat_girl

and

update [species]_tail -> cat_tail

instead?

My bad, I mixed some words up and I have edited my original message. I meant to say when one thinks about the word cat it is strictly understood by everyone to mean domestic cat. Putting these under the cat umbrella isn't right and like Talulah and blindVigil have said, they're distinct enough to warrant their existence.

Zupi said:
I meant to say when one thinks about the word cat it is strictly understood by everyone to mean domestic cat.

Is it, though? "kemono_friends cat_tail" has something in the neighborhood of 750 results, including all of the aforementioned types as well as some I even forgot existed.

I've modified the lynx ears tag to reflect requiring the tuft of black hair that lynx have on the tips of their ears (example: post #4460300). It's a pretty specific style.

Edit: wikipedia image

Not a great metric considering sand cat, pallas's cat, geoffroy's cat, flat-headed cat, marbled cat, jungle cat, norwegian forest cat (kemono friends), and cat (kemono friends) exist, probably more. Plus cosplay and kemonomimi mode. That being said, it still doesn't make sense to tag serval, lynx, etc. as cat.