serval_girl, caracal_girl, etc.

BUR #5873 has been rejected.

create implication serval_girl -> cat_girl
create implication caracal_girl -> cat_girl
create implication lynx_girl -> cat_girl
create implication ocelot_girl -> cat_girl
mass update serval_ears -> cat_ears
mass update serval_tail -> cat_tail
mass update caracal_tail -> cat_tail
mass update ocelot_ears -> cat_ears
mass update ocelot_tail -> cat_tail

Ok, so it sounds like people want the ability to search by species name, and also want tags for things like lynx_tail, lynx_ears, and caracal_ears where they are very visually distinct from your average cat. That said, do any of these other tags differ enough that they could be identified on their own? Scale is obviously irrelevant from a personification standpoint, and domesticated cats come in basically all colors and patterns, so if there's not a very distinctive shape...

Zupi said:

I disagree with Veradux, you won't be able to find furry characters by their species anymore if you get rid of them.

I'm not the expert with furries on the site but...
Can you even do that now?

We're not e621. We don't tag russian_blue_tail, dalmatian_ears, or whatever granular species tags they have.

Not only that, but a majority of such tags are canon tags. If the same exact design for Aardwolf was presented without the name, would we really tag it aardwolf_ears? The five images tagged serval ears that aren't KF have "Serval" either in the image or commentary.

And it's pretty much only Kemono Friends causing this. Dobermann_(arknights) didn't cause us to tag doberman_ears.

Dobermann is just a breed of dog while servals are a completely different species so it's not a great comparison. Arknights doesn't help either because someone started tagging shirayuki with stoat ears.

Talulah said:

Dobermann is just a breed of dog while servals are a completely different species so it's not a great comparison. Arknights doesn't help either because someone started tagging shirayuki with stoat ears.

"Cat" is used to describe the whole genus Felidae though, and neither the cat_girl tag nor wiki actually specifies that only domesticated cats apply.

DownWithTheThickness said:

"Cat" is used to describe the whole genus Felidae though, and neither the cat_girl tag nor wiki actually specifies that only domesticated cats apply.

One thing is Felidae which is also referred to as "Cat family", another one is the Cat species.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat
It doesn't seem the wiki was written with all feline girls in mind. Generic cat girls are a famous trope in anime and the tag is about that.

mongirlfan said:

One thing is Felidae which is also referred to as "Cat family", another one is the Cat species.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat
It doesn't seem the wiki was written with all feline girls in mind. Generic cat girls are a famous trope in anime and the tag is about that.

Sorry, I meant the tag's wiki, which is super bare-bones. I think we might be on similar pages, though? cat_girl is a very generic term, and I suspect that if you showed serval_(kemono_friends) to someone who wasn't already acquainted with the series, they probably wouldn't immediately jump to "that's a serval_girl", I think they'd default to "that's a cat_girl". Just going by the "tag what you see" rule, it makes sense to me that even if we keep the serval_girl tag (which I'm not at all opposed to), serval_(kemono_friends) should still show up if you search for cat_girl.

We could actually have feline_* that is implicated by the felidae descendants/members. Would it be too many extra tags?
Most posts of serval_(kemono_friends) would instantly get +3 tags because of feline_girl feline_ears feline_tail...

I see. We could determine how different/similar a Lynx/Serval/Caracal girl is from a typical Cat Girl, and if there's no noticiable difference between them, that could be a favorable argument to alias them to Cat Girl.

If we look at a Serval, yeah, someone could assume she is a cat girl, but not a generic one. The format of her ears, and the direction their ears points to are different than most Cat Girls, and her tail is noticiably thicker too. I think its easier for someone to think she's some kind of cheetah/jaguar girl (that was my case before I knew the character Serval from Kemono Friends). Same could be said about Caracal.

Now one thing to note, the Serval Girl tag is almost exclusively tied to the character Serval; if you take kemono friends out (serval_girl -kemono_friends), you are left with only four posts. It could be argued that the tag is pointless because it will be always about Serval's character from Kemono Friends. At least with Caracal Girl we have a relevant character (Rararin from Show by Rock) other than the Kemono Friends character. In the end, I don't think it's a good idea to alias them to Cat Girl because there are some notable differences between these feline girls and most cat girls.

mongirlfan said:

-1
Cat girl should be for girls based on domestic cats (or just generic cat girls), not for every feline girl.

100% in agreement. To most people, cat means domestic cat.

If you really need/want an umbrella tag, make it feline_girl or whatever.

I don't view a feline girl umbrella tag as particularly useful here. If you wanted a more generic tag for a girl with ears and a tail, we could have animal girl, since right now there's no tag for animal ears + tail, but it's pointless to have a tag specifically for one family of animals since most of them are visually distinct anyway.

Hot take: just get rid of specific ears/tail tags and tag only *_girl tags. Most times you can't really tell any of these ear or tail tags apart anyway save for very specific ones like bunny or cow ones, and those are always paired.

It's a terrible idea that'll cause riots and destroy us all but it's the only solution I can think of that wouldn't cause a hundred different padding umbrella tags.

nonamethanks said:

Hot take: just get rid of specific ears/tail tags and tag only *_girl tags. Most times you can't really tell any of these ear or tail tags apart anyway save for very specific ones like bunny or cow ones, and those are always paired.

It's a terrible idea that'll cause riots and destroy us all but it's the only solution I can think of that wouldn't cause a hundred different padding umbrella tags.

+1, having both *_ears and *_girl/boy tags has always been kinda stupid and has lead to some really arbitrary and non-written clauses like "it should have both *_ears and *_tail to be tagged as *_girl"

My understanding of nnt's comment is that it would only apply to the niche tags and not cat/bunny/whatever. but I guess the concern there is it turns *_girl into a 3 tag search, *_girl + animal_ears + tail.

I think it's a valid idea myself, but it's very different from how we've historically dealt with all of these tags so it'll probably get a lot of pushback.

Talulah said:

My understanding of nnt's comment is that it would only apply to the niche tags and not cat/bunny/whatever. but I guess the concern there is it turns *_girl into a 3 tag search, *_girl + animal_ears + tail.

Yeah the riot part was for the cat/bunny/cow/etc tags, they're too popular to outright merge into _girl tags. But these dozens of small tags centered around one or two characters from the same copyright can just be converted into *_girl with no loss of information. If you search for serval girl you'd be already seeing all results for tail/ears, there's no need for those additional tags, because to be a serval girl a character has to have both.

We can decide on which tags we can keep, and just convert the rest into _girl tags.

Also blame credit where credit is due, this was originally an idea @NWF_Renim brought forth in the discord.

Talulah said:

My understanding of nnt's comment is that it would only apply to the niche tags and not cat/bunny/whatever. but I guess the concern there is it turns *_girl into a 3 tag search, *_girl + animal_ears + tail.

The majority of *_girl posts are just, or could be easily found from, *_girl + animal_ears, it's very rare to have the tail visible and not the ears. Just looking at the first page of cat_girl -animal_ears all 20 posts are just missing the cat_ears/animal_ears tag.

Unbreakable said:

The majority of *_girl posts are just, or could be easily found from, *_girl + animal_ears, it's very rare to have the tail visible and not the ears. Just looking at the first page of cat_girl -animal_ears all 20 posts are just missing the cat_ears/animal_ears tag.

You mean just *_girl? You don't even need the animal_ears tag.

nonamethanks said:

You mean just *_girl? You don't even need the animal_ears tag.

True, but the search is good if you want to do some easy tag gardening.

nonamethanks said:

Hot take: just get rid of specific ears/tail tags and tag only *_girl tags. Most times you can't really tell any of these ear or tail tags apart anyway save for very specific ones like bunny or cow ones, and those are always paired.

It's a terrible idea that'll cause riots and destroy us all but it's the only solution I can think of that wouldn't cause a hundred different padding umbrella tags.

nonamethanks said:

I think it's a valid idea myself, but it's very different from how we've historically dealt with all of these tags so it'll probably get a lot of pushback.

Yeah the riot part was for the cat/bunny/cow/etc tags, they're too popular to outright merge into _girl tags. But these dozens of small tags centered around one or two characters from the same copyright can just be converted into *_girl with no loss of information. If you search for serval girl you'd be already seeing all results for tail/ears, there's no need for those additional tags, because to be a serval girl a character has to have both.

We can decide on which tags we can keep, and just convert the rest into _girl tags.

Also blame credit where credit is due, this was originally an idea @NWF_Renim brought forth in the discord.

I'd kinda agree in principle. Worried about the pushback from the KemoFri crowd though.

On a side note, some of the Strike Witches girls seem to also get a few of the "specific animal" ear tags (without the corresponding Fooanimal_girl tag), though those seemed to have been added later. Some of them have either cat ears or dog ears for a while, then something like caracal ears added on years after.

Speaking about caracal ears... oddly Caracal_(Kemono Friends) gets tagged caracal ears pretty consistently, but not with caracal girl. Tagging of the latter is kinda spotty.

For reference, in the last 7 days:

• top 1000 *_girl searches
• top 1000 *_boy searches (it's 656, because there's no other searches)
• top 1000 *_tail searches
• top 1000 *_ears searches

Some of these tags barely get any search. For caracal, only the ears tag gets searches, and it's a handful. Same for ocelot, where there's only 8 searches for the tail.
I think most of the tags under 100 searches could harmlessly be aliased to their *_girl equivalent.

nonamethanks said:

Some of these tags barely get any search. For caracal, only the ears tag gets searches, and it's a handful. Same for ocelot, where there's only 8 searches for the tail.
I think most of the tags under 100 searches could harmlessly be aliased to their *_girl equivalent.

I suspect that would result in having to regularly remove *_girl tags from animal boys because of people trying to tag the ears and tails.

Also, what about hypothetical cases of an animal tail being visible, but the gender (or species) of the owner can't be confirmed?