Discussion about "lazy" tagging and usage of tagme (Formerly: Reducing tagme postings)

I think this topic established the nature of the tagme tag quite well: This tag should is well used on posts that are tagged on an mediocre level and if you can't remember/find tags or don't know them.
This tag isn't to be used when there is a lack of the most basic tags (That covers tags on the lowest level on howto:tag_checklist.
Anyway, I go with the first option that you have provided: Tag it "something". Then adding tagme is valid because there are some tags you can find the post with.

Number 2 is a pretty shitty option, but it seems that we don't have time to look over everything. If an user excels at number 2, then a neutral feedback should be written (or a Dmail), leading them to howto:tag and the aformentioned checklist wiki.
But if you added tagme then you definitely looked at an image and I truly think that even more tags can be added in the same process since you are already in Edit mode. I guess that shouldn't really apply to lurkers, but to users who definitely know some tags.
I think it's asking too much to pointedly search for these posts but if someone happens to cross over such a post, then it should be in their interest to find to tag with a normal amount of tags as soon as possible and not hoping for someone who cleans up tagme.
At least, there are some basic tags to start searching with, even if you add tagme and it reduces the odds of not finding a post as soon as possible. The most tags can always be added afterwards by someone who looks though tagme.

The problem of bad tagging gets resolved with something else, though. There you can add/remove tagme so many times you want to. It won't change the uploader's habits. But that's when the feedback system comes into place or contact them via a mail.

Most of the time when I go into images to edit them - which are also the times I have added tagme to images - I have been going through adding a set of tags (which can't be added by tag script) to lots of images, not adding masses of tags. These are usually not basic tags - eg. I might be adding the specific musical symbol tags to images with musical note.

Adding other (including basic) tags would be outside the scope of what I was doing at the time, and require completely shifting my approach and slow the process down to the point where it ceases to actually be doing what I'm intending to do, whereas I can easily add tagme to the list of tags I add when appropriate.

If I'm told I shouldn't be adding tagme in these circumstances I simply won't add it and instead leave the image after adding the tags that I'm doing, albeit now even less likely for people to realise that it needs tagging as the only way to find things that need tagging if not with tagme is with tag count searches, and the number of tags on the image in question has just gone up, sometimes quite considerably.
This is basically the approach that I've shifted to following the course of this conversation.

I know some people like to add as many tags at a time every time they update an image, but for others of us this just isn't the way we do things a lot of the time.

I had totally forgot about this discussion (I've been staying lowkey lately), but as following this discussion (forum #138488, forum #138489, forum #138550) the clause is removed. I thought I removed it earlier, but clearly my memory fails me:

If someone wants to dispute it again, feel free. But know that this was never made policy under a considerable consensus, and it is fair grounds to put tagme wherever a user deems appropriate (and especially if it is outside of their time, effort, or capability).

Mikaeri said:

I had totally forgot about this discussion (I've been staying lowkey lately), but as following this discussion (forum #138488, forum #138489, forum #138550) the clause is removed. I thought I removed it earlier, but clearly my memory fails me:

Show

If someone wants to dispute it again, feel free. But know that this was never made policy under a considerable consensus, and it is fair grounds to put tagme wherever a user deems appropriate (and especially if it is outside of their time, effort, or capability).

Yo, I agree in the end.
But I don't agree with adding tagme to posts directly after upload on another user's upload since an user is still in the process of adding it, so the post is not tagged as "Level0" as per the howto:tag_checklist.
It could also be interpreted as provocation since the post gets tagged immediately afterwards.

Chiera said:

Yo, I agree in the end.
But I don't agree with adding tagme to posts directly after upload on another user's upload since an user is still in the process of adding it, so the post is not tagged as "Level0" as per the howto:tag_checklist.
It could also be interpreted as provocation since the post gets tagged immediately afterwards.

Hey.

If you mintag, you mintag. That's on you. Sniping is already not considered a major problem (at least, by the staff). So, interpreted provocation or not, some users see what they see. What they see being a poorly tagged post, no matter how old it is. Frankly, even a noname member-level user could do it and it'd be totally acceptable. I'm just looking at gentags:<12 age:..2h and periodically refreshing so people know they aren't supposed to tag like shit on up.

If you get embarrassed, big deal. Maybe it's about time to improve those habits. After all, it's just a simple edit, and you still have your uploader name on it. Win win.

Mikaeri said:

Hey.

If you mintag, you mintag. That's on you. Sniping is already not considered a major problem (at least, by the staff). So, interpreted provocation or not, some users see what they see. What they see being a poorly tagged post, no matter how old it is. Frankly, even a noname member-level user could do it and it'd be totally acceptable. I'm just looking at gentags:<12 age:..2h and periodically refreshing so people know they aren't supposed to tag like shit on up.

If you get embarrassed, big deal. Maybe it's about time to improve those habits. After all, it's just a simple edit, and you still have your uploader name on it. Win win.

This has really nothing to do with mintagging or similar stuff.
You know that the post will still be tagged by the uploader, so it is completely against the nature of the tag which is to be used when a post will never ever reach the threshold as per the wiki page I've linked above.
Tagme is supposed to be a helpful tag, a learn tool for the uploader. However, this practice will help absolutely no one and you saw what it already has lead to. I highly suggest to drop this usage as it will create conflicts. Wait some minutes and if the post still isn't tagged then I would add tagme to the post.
Maybe a limit of 30 minutes sounds reasonable. Then you would also filter out really lazy taggers who do nothing afterwards.

Tagme is not a punishment tag.

Chiera said:

This has really nothing to do with mintagging or similar stuff.
You know that the post will still be tagged by the uploader, so it is completely against the nature of the tag which is to be used when a post will never ever reach the threshold as per the wiki page I've linked above.
Tagme is supposed to be a helpful tag, a learn tool for the uploader. However, this practice will help absolutely no one and you saw what it already has lead to. I highly suggest to drop this usage as it will create conflicts. Wait some minutes and if the post still isn't tagged then I would add tagme to the post.
Maybe a limit of 30 minutes sounds reasonable. Then you would also filter out really lazy taggers who do nothing afterwards.

Tagme is not a punishment tag.

And this isn't punishment. I see what I see. Deal with it. If you see me mintag a post, feel free to humiliate me over it. I don't mind.

EDIT: In the first place, you're misinterpreting what tagme is supposed to be used for. Yes, tagme is a learning tag, but it's also a tag used to highlight posts that are tagged subpar and need improvement. Who cares how long it takes? Some people have left posts untagged in the past for hours upon hours, respected uploaders at that. When you give them a meter, they take a mile.

I think you're finding a problem with the wrong thing. It's definitely not this.

Chiera said:

I highly suggest to drop this usage as it will create conflicts.

The practice of uploading posts with minimal tags has created far more conflict than tagme ever will. It's a bit hypocritical to accuse anyone of "provocation" while engaging in activities that provoke just as much discord among contributors.

iridescent_slime said:

The practice of uploading posts with minimal tags has created far more conflict than tagme ever will. It's a bit hypocritical to accuse anyone of "provocation" while engaging in activities that provoke just as much discord among contributors.

I'd rather be happy if you could share your opinion if tagme should be used like that or not.

Chiera said:

I'd rather be happy if you could share your opinion if tagme should be used like that or not.

Ideally, we would never have to use this tag in the first place. I have no problem with anyone adding it to flagrantly undertagged posts, however. There's nothing inherently bad about drawing attention to someone else's self-serving behavior.

iridescent_slime said:

Ideally, we would never have to use this tag in the first place. I have no problem with anyone adding it to flagrantly undertagged posts, however. There's nothing inherently bad about drawing attention to someone else's self-serving behavior.

What if this "undertagged" post is in the process of getting tagged, be it out of convenience (tagging from the upload page is shitty as hell) or a "snipe"?

I really don't see how it makes any difference. Insufficiently tagged posts are insufficiently tagged.

iridescent_slime said:

I really don't see how it makes any difference. Insufficiently tagged posts are insufficiently tagged.

Yes, and it still gets tagged, so the post hasn't reached it's "final" state and that's a pretty big difference since adding tagme in this case says that you don't trust that it ever gets tagged. At least that's how this tag feels like even if it isn't the intention.

Anyway, seems that we don't really get anywhere, though.
Pinging @NWF_Renim and @Type-kun as well. Especially Type-Kun's opinion might be interesting since it was him who said that one should give the uploader time with tagging.

Uploading now shows a warning when you upload a post with less than 10 general tags. See issue #1563 and issue #3466.

The warning looks like this: "Uploads must have at least 10 general tags. Read howto:tag for guidelines on tagging your uploads".

To answer some questions some people may have about this:

• I realize there's no official rule on the minimum number of tags a post must have. But we have to pick a number, and 10 is as good as any. The warning is strongly worded in the hopes that uploaders will pay attention to it.

• I know that sometimes posts legitimately have less than 10 gentags. That's why this is a warning and not an error. If you're an experienced uploader, you know when it's reasonable to ignore this warning.

• I know that some people upload first then tag after. Sorry. There's no way to tell who is going to tag their uploads afterwards and who isn't, so the warning is shown for everybody.

Then there should be no need to put tagme directly after upload as a "reminder".

I think "must" should be replaced with "should". I'd be tempted to stick a "generally" after this as well. As you say, there are cases where fewer than 10 gentags is justified and the aim isn't to send people into a panicked or frustrated search to try to drag something like post #2946319 up to 10 gentags.

gesture request is probably a form of tagme? (should it be implied? But the tag is used too little for making a request on forum about this)

↑ I added it to the tagme wiki. Hopefully more taggers will find it now.

Tagme shouldn't be implicated by anything.
Tagme could be used as something that there are generally to few tags. It's more general.
The *_request tags listed there are for specific items.

gentags:<3 status:active -no_humans has been reduced back to zero.

gentags:<5 status:active -no_humans is down to a little over half the number it was at just after the metatag category was created but that's still almost 10k images.