[REJECTED] Ice cream

remove implication vanilla_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication chocolate_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication chocolate_mint_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication strawberry_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication yellow_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication green_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication blue_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication purple_ice_cream -> ice_cream
create implication single_scoop -> ice_cream
create implication double_scoop -> ice_cream
create implication triple_scoop -> ice_cream
create implication too_many_scoops -> ice_cream
create implication ice_cream_cone_on_head -> ice_cream_cone
create implication ice_cream_spoon -> spoon

Link to request

Alright, I'm not 100% positive on how to tackle this BUR. I was concerned about how some ice creams are identified by colors while others use flavors. I find this incredibly inconsistent when we use colors for practically everything else.

EDIT: Drat, forgot that chocolate_ice_cream, chocolate_mint_ice_cream and strawberry_ice_cream implicate ice_cream, so I can't request an alias unless it's agreed to move from flavors to colors.

I didn't add vanilla_ice_cream -> white_ice_cream to the list because it's possible for vanilla ice cream to be yellow. I'm thinking of manually migrating vanilla over to white or yellow, depending on what's depicted. I won't do it until I hear everyone's thoughts on this issue though. Note that vanilla_ice_cream implicates ice_cream, so if there's an agreement to manually get rid of the flavor tags, these implications need to be removed first.

EDIT: This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

EDIT: The bulk update request #1163 (forum #130116) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

I don't think that flavor should imply the color.
Artist's might draw that in different shades, for example chocolate mint ice cream might be blue in one case and more green in another case...

provence said:

I don't think that flavor should imply the color.
Artist's might draw that in different shades, for example chocolate mint ice cream might be blue in one case and more green in another case...

My original request had chocolate_mint_ice_cream be aliased to aqua_ice_cream for that reason, but with the ice_cream implication existed on the flavor, no edits will work unless it's agreed upon to remove the *flavor*_ice_cream -> ice_cream implications.

That why I was baffled in the strawberry_ice_cream wiki that it said, "Assume that all pink ice cream is strawberry," because that is a far cry from true.

While we've expanded color subtags for various articles of clothing, I'm not sure we should be doing the same with ice cream. This includes labeling flavoring, which as you say are pure guesses based on color.

The only flavors that'd be visual would be those like chocolate chip, where you have something mixed in that is visible, but you still couldn't tell regular chocolate chip from a natural (non-dyed) mint chocolate chip.

Tangential: what's with the naming choice of "chocolate mint ice cream"? As far as I'm aware the naming should be "mint chocolate chip ice cream". "Chocolate mint" can be ambiguous (external link) and the naming gives a false impression that one of the base flavors of the ice cream is chocolate, when the base flavor is just mint.

As far as I can tell, the earliest use of an ice cream flavor tag was on post #1194217, where tagging the flavor probably made sense in light of the character's design. Since then, though, these tags have sort of spiraled out of control. Is anybody really searching for tags like blue ice cream?

iridescent_slime said:

Is anybody really searching for tags like blue ice cream?

There is a possibility, but I doubt those Anon visitors are meticulous enough to search ice cream through color...

I am not a fan of using these tags, any more color variations on a tag that doesn't show up in a large percentage of posts just doesn't require these implications.

It's just filler tagging, the kind of near useless tagging that makes one look like a good tagger but actually isn't -- because little to no one would bother searching something as fine as "blue ice cream" when most users put ice cream and call it a day. Tagging should focus on easily recognizable details, not "how much can I artificially pad my tagging record". zeparoh's tagging is a great example.

After all, if you bother to tag a color-specific tag but forget to tag the superset tag, then it does raise the concern of how you treat tagging in the first place. For articles of clothing, color is useful, yeah... But this just isn't, unless there's so much ice cream in every post that people would *bother* searching the color.

I say nuke all of these tags instead. The adoption and implications just aren't worth it.

Mikaeri said:

I am not a fan of using these tags, any more color variations on a tag that doesn't show up in a large percentage of posts just doesn't require these implications.

It's just filler tagging, the kind of near useless tagging that makes one look like a good tagger but actually isn't -- because little to no one would bother searching something as fine as "blue ice cream" when most users put ice cream and call it a day. Tagging should focus on easily recognizable details, not "how much can I artificially pad my tagging record". zeparoh's tagging is a great example.

After all, if you bother to tag a color-specific tag but forget to tag the superset tag, then it does raise the concern of how you treat tagging in the first place. For articles of clothing, color is useful, yeah... But this just isn't, unless there's so much ice cream in every post that people would *bother* searching the color.

I say nuke all of these tags instead. The adoption and implications just aren't worth it.

Harsh, but the core is correct.
This seems like bloating things up and creating an even thicker forest of tags. This doesn't male things simpler, since it's complete niche. Same with blazer colors which also got populated somehow brown_blazer.

iridescent_slime said:

As far as I can tell, the earliest use of an ice cream flavor tag was on post #1194217, where tagging the flavor probably made sense in light of the character's design. Since then, though, these tags have sort of spiraled out of control. Is anybody really searching for tags like blue ice cream?

If I'm looking at Google analytics right, there were only around 100 unique searches for *ice_cream* in the past year. Not sure how precise that is, but it's not like it's getting thousands of searches in any case.

Mikaeri said:

It's just filler tagging, the kind of near useless tagging that makes one look like a good tagger but actually isn't -- because little to no one would bother searching something as fine as "blue ice cream" when most users put ice cream and call it a day. Tagging should focus on easily recognizable details, not "how much can I artificially pad my tagging record". zeparoh's tagging is a great example.

I completely agree with this. I feel like tagging has been drifting in this direction for a while now. The goal of tagging should be to make interesting things easier to search, not to describe every last inconsequential detail of an image.

Alright, so after parsing through these responses, I removed the colors from the request, but not the scoops and miscellaneous tags. While the colors I had didn't have implications, some colors do have it, so I'll add those colors as unimplications. After the unimply is done, I can go in and nuke them manually, then update the ice cream wiki to reflect this.

EDIT: Should I also request for the flavors to be unimplied and nuked as well?

+1 for the scoop request.

Benit149 said:

Alright, so after parsing through these responses, I removed the colors from the request, but not the scoops and miscellaneous tags. While the colors I had didn't have implications, some colors do have it, so I'll add those colors as unimplications. After the unimply is done, I can go in and nuke them manually, then update the ice cream wiki to reflect this.

+1 to this. We may want to alias the colors to ice cream though, to prevent them from being recreated in the future.

EDIT: Should I also request for the flavors to be unimplied and nuked as well?

Currently the flavor tags are barely used, and I'm not seeing any posts where the flavor itself is particularly important, so I don't think anything of value would be lost. If anyone really wants to keep these tags then I suggest they populate them. If no one cares enough to do that, then the tags aren't worth keeping.

evazion said:

If anyone really wants to keep these tags then I suggest they populate them. If no one cares enough to do that, then the tags aren't worth keeping.

I get the impression that @mock, who created most of those tags, made a reasonable attempt to populate them a couple years ago. Perhaps they should be given a chance to argue in favor of keeping the tags before any action is taken?

evazion said:

+1 to this. We may want to alias the colors to ice cream though, to prevent them from being recreated in the future.

I did update the ice cream wiki today to mention that colors shouldn't be used. I think it could be left at that, and then if people are still creating tags in the future (which means they don't read the wikis), then the aliases could be requested.

iridescent_slime said:

I get the impression that @mock, who created most of those tags, made a reasonable attempt to populate them a couple years ago. Perhaps they should be given a chance to argue in favor of keeping the tags before any action is taken?

I can wait if needed, but I don't want this subject to be forgotten while it's relevant.

I don't care.

Alright then, I added the flavor unimplication requests as well.

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

The bulk update request #1163 (forum #130116) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

remove implication vanilla_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication chocolate_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication chocolate_mint_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication strawberry_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication yellow_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication green_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication blue_ice_cream -> ice_cream
remove implication purple_ice_cream -> ice_cream
mass update vanilla_ice_cream -> ice_cream
mass update chocolate_ice_cream -> ice_cream chocolate
mass update chocolate_mint_ice_cream -> ice_cream
mass update strawberry_ice_cream -> ice_cream
mass update yellow_ice_cream -> ice_cream
mass update green_ice_cream -> ice_cream
mass update blue_ice_cream -> ice_cream
mass update purple_ice_cream -> ice_cream
create implication single_scoop -> ice_cream
create implication double_scoop -> ice_cream
create implication triple_scoop -> ice_cream
create implication too_many_scoops -> ice_cream
create implication ice_cream_cone_on_head -> ice_cream_cone
create implication ice_cream_spoon -> spoon

Link to request

Resubmitting after automatic rejection. I also added an update part so that the colored versions will be moved to the main tag.

EDIT: This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

EDIT: The bulk update request #1617 (forum #146258) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.