Posted under General
The site automatically adds tagme when a post otherwise has zero tags, either because it was uploaded that way or because a vandal tried to blank the tags.
We could add a minimum tag requirement but the question is what should it be? Given difficult-to-tag posts like the one kuudere points out the highest it could probably be is 3. There are no active tagcount:<=3 posts. But there are also people who upload first and tag later, so a tag minimum may impact them.
Jarlath said:
Removing that "feature" might help matters, IMO. Granted, we're down to only 12 tagme posts now, but given the wiki for tagme specifically states that it's not an excuse to be lazy, having the Uploader automatically use it below a certain threshold of tags (2 in the case of post #2574317 when I first looked at it - the rest of the tags were only added about two minutes later) seems to defeat the point of stating that in the wiki.
What's the point if in the end, the uploader will tag it with 8+ tags?
How about revising the wiki itself?
Sacriven said:
What's the point if in the end, the uploader will tag it with 8+ tags?
How about revising the wiki itself?
The point is that tagme is only to be used in specific circumstances, so having the system add it rather than just denying an upload with zero manual tags (the same way it stops uploads without a rating) is encouraging misuse of the tagme tag by making for the exact opposite example of how to use it in the first place. Plus, it makes the post searchable even if it takes the original Uploader several minutes to add the rest of the tags.
evazion said:
The site automatically adds tagme when a post otherwise has zero tags, either because it was uploaded that way or because a vandal tried to blank the tags.
We could add a minimum tag requirement but the question is what should it be? Given difficult-to-tag posts like the one kuudere points out the highest it could probably be is 3. There are no active tagcount:<=3 posts. But there are also people who upload first and tag later, so a tag minimum may impact them.
I'd say three manual is the minimum - artist/copyright/general image description. Like if there are people, if it's in color, any genders and numbers of people (when present). Otherwise the search won't turn up that post, which is why we encourage people to tag as specifically as possible in the Howto for tags and posting.
Any post that goes up should at least have the copyright, a copyright request tag, or original/real life tag. There's no excuse not to have those - just as there's no excuse to tag people or objects in a picture.
Maybe we should finally define what lazy for the purpose of tagme actually means and lazy tagging in general if tagme is not used.
As for minimum tagging: I'd say one or no tag. Tagme is then used to make this post searchable at all. That's why it is added alongside highres for example.
If the uploader tags it afterwards (and removes tagme): Everything is fine.
If the uploader doesn't add tags afterwards then it is bad.
That makes competition between Contributors a bit more open (in fact, it already is this open, but no one seems to use that, i.e. uploading with no tags): With that, one could use the bookmarklet or just copy&paste the source and click on submit, but tagme will be added.
And I changed this topic's title, since the issue switched a bit and creating a new topic is a bit over the top.
Updated
I don't think tagme should exist as a "No tags here please add" tag. At the very least, you should know what the copyright of a picture is, or if you need to ask for one if it's not original art or based on teal life. If there's humans or no humans should also he obvious - this site isn't here to collect abstract or surrealism style art, after all. You
If you're using the bookmarklet, you can hit three tags easy - there's no point in making tagme an automatic tag. It should be manual and used for situations where there's either a lot going on, or of the picture has elements that need tagging yet an obvious *_request tag isn't available.
Otherwise, why should I or any Uploader bother to tag anything beyond tacking tagme on? Why should the upload page have links to howto:upload or specify that tagging is mandatory when your suggested criteria says it's clearly not?
Why should anyone put the effort in, when you're telling people that tagging doesn't matter when your suggestion is "don't enforce any minimum standard"?
Well, I guess to mark hard rules here is pretty difficult, since we still don't know what lazy tagging should mean. It is there in the tagme wiki, but what does it mean?
I see that tagme should be kept until step three is reached. So what is lazy? Not reaching step 1 or step 2 in this guideline?
Provence said:
Well, I guess to mark hard rules here is pretty difficult, since we still don't know what lazy tagging should mean. It is there in the tagme wiki, but what does it mean?
I see that tagme should be kept until step three is reached. So what is lazy? Not reaching step 1 or step 2 in this guideline?
Per the howto:tagging checklist tags checklist - level 0 is the basics (copyright, artist, characters, rating) that any post should have. Level 1 covers other obvious details like if there's people, how many and what gender, basic identifying features of a person including costumes/clothing/accessories, and if it's color or monochrome. Level 2 looks at location and backgrounds, as well as less searched criteria like a character's apparent age (and if it varies from the standard depiction), and other incidental details.
If you've tagged all that, tagme doesn't need to be used as you've gotten 90-95% of anything used to search for an image. If you're stuck at level one, tagme is more useful than leaving just the artist name, rating, and source... but even with original characters, you should be able to hit level 2 as a regular browser of Danbooru - much less if you've got Builder status.
If your posts are level 0 or 1 (no tags, or minimum auto tagged), I'd call it lazy if you left it alone forever or just threw in tagme. If it's a known copyright, either search for the characters oruse character_request at least. I'd argue that the upload page should enforce minimum tagging standards just to build those tagging habits early - which is why I object to it allowing no tags and throwing tagme in by default. Builders don't get to skip tagging because they're purple named - I don't think you get there without demonstrating that you can tag past the bare minimum. Even the lowest tagging Builders and Contributors get closer to 11 tags than 1,if the user report is anywhere near accurate.
Would you recommend a tag to be used if you know there's something but can't figure it out? I saw someone recommend a detail request tag. I tend to use the tagme a lot because that's how the wiki says you should use it, but it sounds like that needs to change.
MB295 said:
Would you recommend a tag to be used if you know there's something but can't figure it out? I saw someone recommend a detail request tag. I tend to use the tagme a lot because that's how the wiki says you should use it, but it sounds like that needs to change.
Tagme is only to be used when the usual request tags fail, and you're really stuck on what else to tag but it's not at level 3 (where I'd be tagging blue_sky, weather, white_dress) level. Looking at your most recent posts, I don't see any reason why you'd really NEED tagme - you're consistently at a level in the last six uploads where I'd be able to look up similar pictures or subjects with the tags you used.
I really don't see a need to replace tagme as a tag, and if anything would discourage its use if possible. There's always someone who may fill in extra details.
Jarlath said:
Tagme is only to be used when the usual request tags fail, and you're really stuck on what else to tag but it's not at level 3 (where I'd be tagging blue_sky, weather, white_dress) level. Looking at your most recent posts, I don't see any reason why you'd really NEED tagme - you're consistently at a level in the last six uploads where I'd be able to look up similar pictures or subjects with the tags you used.
I really don't see a need to replace tagme as a tag, and if anything would discourage its use if possible. There's always someone who may fill in extra details.
Ah, don't get me wrong. I wasn't talking about replacing tagme. Rather, I was thinking of having another tag take place of a certain part of the wiki page.
To be used when you know, or feel like, there are more tags to be added but don't know, or can't remember/find them.
This part, in particular.
The answer: topic #12251
Ne need for a tag.
Provence said:
The answer: topic #12251
Ne need for a tag.
I wish that got more use than it already does. It's, linked to in the upload page, but when I see tagme on posts with only 3 or fewer tags.... well, it just bugs me.
It's always just been a matter of laziness more than anything. Other imageboards don't require the amount of detail in tagging that we do. I think howto:tag and howto:tag checklist are somewhat sufficient, although they could be better linked together.
The reason why threads like those exist is because a tag like "feature request" or something like doesn't describe enough in detail what it is you want to know the tag for. But it's not exactly a "how do I tag better" thread. I use tagme very sparsely, and it's only because I think that there's too little I'm noticing (post #2563164 for example).
Just wanted to say that I personally use tagme when I've looked over the image several times over and I can't think of anything I might have missed, so it's more of a "please second check the tags" kind of deal. Then a few days later I go back to check and see what people might have added, helps my own tagging habits.
Flandre5carlet said:
Just wanted to say that I personally use tagme when I've looked over the image several times over and I can't think of anything I might have missed, so it's more of a "please second check the tags" kind of deal. Then a few days later I go back to check and see what people might have added, helps my own tagging habits.
I'd add a comment to ask what was missing - the feedback will help other uploaders or potential uploaders. Especially since, IMO, tagme has gained a reputation for "lax tagging" given how it's been used over the past decade, until Provence and others made the concerted effort to clean it up this year.
Mikaeri said:
It's always just been a matter of laziness more than anything. Other imageboards don't require the amount of detail in tagging that we do. I think howto:tag and howto:tag checklist are somewhat sufficient, although they could be better linked together.
And that's why I'm in favor of removing the automatic implications to tagme in the Uploader Bookmarklet for a zero tagged post. We expect higher standards, and the system should make some small effort to enforce them in the tools as well. Especially with the bookmarklet, there's no excuse to not reach 3 tags that aren't tagme.
Provence said:
...Because some users are using this tag (again)...shouldn't we also link to its wiki page in the upload page?
I would've done it, but I think asking is better before doing.
I say do it. This is a bit of a trigger for me, and that's why I was against keeping tagme as a tag in the first place. It's too easy to abuse.
