Provence's recent issue with nude filter rule application brought up an interesting niggle in my mind. And, on that topic, the following is from my perspective, which could be entirely flawed.
I haven't been around as long as a decent number of people on this site, but when I first arrived it felt like Danbooru's policy-making was basically based around jxh2154 being the arbiter of discussion. That is, users, janitors, and moderators would discuss an issue and give their opinions, then generally jxh would be the "final stop" to "set" the rule and it would get integrated into the various help and wiki articles from that point. The discussion could certainly continue or brought up again later, but jxh was kinda like the court judge giving the "ruling" which could be appealed later. Not a perfect reference, but hopefully decent enough.
jxh also ran the implication and alias train that albert has handled since jxh stepped down. That still works because it's more based in sense and understanding of how the site's already working and just plonking in yes or no based on whether it makes sense to add or not after minor discussion. However, it feels like the "overall" detailed policy-making system may have stalled, as there isn't really a "senior moderator" any more. The users and moderators input their opinions and then it just kinda sits there as there's nobody saying "well, that's that."
Do we need a new designated jxh-y type person to finalize rule and policy discussion?
(Before you ask about the title; yes, I have been binge-playing the Mass Effect series.)
I've been watching whats been going on for the past few months, it does seem that things are going at a standstill. Having a second admin meant that we had a real standby leader in charge. Ever since jxh stepped back it seems like there's a vacuum of standing authority, and albert is too hands off moderation. We do need someone who is not only active but willing to step in when two high level users disagree and a third party needs to speak up.
If we need to nominate someone to admin level, I would say the most qualified for level of activity and initiative right now are NWF Renim, Wypatroszony, Log or Saladofstones. You'd have my support if you decide you're willing to take on that position too.
Glad I'm not the only one seeing it that way; was kinda worried I was.
buehbueh said:
You'd have my support if you decide you're willing to take on that position too.
Getting a bit ahead and assuming one is chosen, I'm certainly willing from a time and effort point of view, I just worry I don't have the...seniority? Or the technical experience. I went from being a Gold user to Moderator when the Janitor position started getting phased out; albert asked for volunteers, I sheepishly asked to be a Trial Janitor and was given Moderator, so I've been trying to do my best but there are others whom have been at it longer. I assume being an Admin is more than just the above described role when it comes to the site mechanics and I am by no means a programmer (grovelling to even the CSS guys to help make the site less white; seeing three lines of code that make a number red in a userscript and not knowing how to use it to make other numbers green). I also assume (if I understand the userlevel correctly) albert would want someone he at least somewhat knows and trusts to be put there due to basically having the ability to wreck the site. If that's a concern toward all of the candidates perhaps another user level could be created though that seems a little weird for just one user.
@jxh2154 is still around, though - at least judging by his favorites list. He didn't leave the site, he just doesn't have any time to do alias approval anymore. Perhaps he'll find time to resolve critical disputes, it's possible to summon him when necessary with @ mention. Though I do agree that having an active backup admin is necessary, and old-time janitors/mods are good candidates for this. By the way, I'm personally fine with OOZ662 being an admin, but - sorry to be blunt - I don't think he's going to have enough authority to solve disputes, especially when two mods clash.
I am fairly certain that the problems arise primarily because there is too much work to be done and too little manpower to back it up. It takes a very long time to properly tag or add TL notes for a particular image, compared to the relatively low effort needed to upload (and the much, much larger visibility of image upload contribution). Even with equal numbers of uploaders and tag/note curators it is inevitable that a backlog of necessary work will accumulate, so even if some sort of consensus is reached in forum discussions, not a lot of people will be motivated to do that work.
There are few ways to go about this, but it really depends on what albert wants, since he's the only one that can grant admin status.
He could:
Maintain the status quo
Pick an admin himself
Allow the community to pick an admin
If it's the last option, we could hold a vote, where moderators get something like +10 per vote, janitors would get something like +5, and builders would get something like +1. No offense to platinum-, but builder+ demonstrates a certain level of devotion and involvement in the site.
If we hold a vote I think there is a great danger that the user gets admin who is a fan favorite by the users. So I suggest a much smaller circle of user who can "vote" and that would be the one who have approval powers or if we want to be really strict the moderators (but that would only be....7(?) users. That's too few in my eyes. But to include the guys who can approve, the poll goes up to around 50. That more then enough in my eyes. But there are also other variations: 1. Only the moderators (and higher) 2. Moderators and Janitors (or user with approval powers) (-> I'd go with that) 3. Mods, Janitors, Contributors 4. Mods, Janitors, Contributors and Builder (Would be BrokenEagle's proposal)
In all honesty, I'm okay if NWF Renim becomes the second admin. He(she?) has been here long enough to know how things work around here and is a very active member of the community that also comments on tag alias and implications. I was considering Log as a second candidate since he's here long enough as well and is headstrong enough to settle matters into his own hands and close them but he doesn't seem as active as NWF Renim.
In all honesty, I'm okay if NWF Renim becomes the second admin. He(she?) has been here long enough to know how things work around here and is a very active member of the community that also comments on tag alias and implications. I was considering Log as a second candidate since he's here long enough as well and is headstrong enough to settle matters into his own hands and close them but he doesn't seem as active as NWF Renim.
@albert should give his OK first, I'm pretty sure he's not aware of the topic yet.
Also, summoning @NWF_Renim here before he somehow gets popular-voted into admin role without himself knowing. Admin rights are a huge responsibility, and it takes up some more of precious free time, so the person themselves should be willing to take it.
NWF has been my personal recommendation for a long time (I was trying to get someone else to take over for like a year before I finally just stepped down, lol), but I'm not sure he's interested, though that could have changed since then. (I also recommended Toks, I don't know if they're still active, I've not read the forums in about a year.)
It is a massive amount of work, but besides that many threads require you to "take a side" on topics about which, to be frank, you might have no preferences or even interest whatsoever (this was honestly the hardest part!). I didn't mind doing it for a long time, but after 6-7 years or whatever it was, I just got into a position where I could not dedicate adequate time to it anymore.
Unfortunately that's only become more true since, not less, so regarding the question of whether I might come back in a more limited role for non-aliases, I really am not able to. I run a website that takes a lot of my weekend to manage and my real job has only gotten more demanding in the past year or two so weekdays are all a bust. I have even less time now than when I stepped down.
Anyway, I agree you need another decision-making kind of admin, and I've already said who I'd recommend. It's up to them and albert though and please don't hold it against them if they're not interested!
I'd like @Log and @NWF_Renim to give their opinions here. They're my top picks in the first place. jxh2154 mentioned @Toks but I don't think he's that active.
Finally around to respond. I had seen the dmails and the thread earlier, but lacked the proper time to give a response or a physical keyboard to type on.
I do agree that after jxh2154 stepped back from essentially the position of judge or arbitrator that policy making and dispute resolution had pretty much ground to a halt. Someone filling that role was something I had originally expected would happen, but as more of the process became seemingly hands off or even "machine-like" (like with tag aliases and implications), I had assumed it was something that albert was moving away from in how the site operated.
Personally I had never considered that I'd be one of the nominations for taking up the position. It just always felt to me that there were those who were either more experienced/knowledgeable or more level headed than myself. I'm willing to give it a try and fill the role, but I'd definitely have no hard feelings if there were those who disagreed with me filling that role. As long as the role is filled by someone (as subjective as this is) who seemed "good" for the position, I'd be happy with that.
I do have some concerns with taking up the position, particularly with time and, well, mindset. Currently I have the spare time to use, but I can't necessarily guarantee I'll continue to have that time to spare in the near future. As for mindset, it will take a bit of mental gear shifting, as usually I approach threads on a side and so more like a lawyer (and sometimes getting overly invested with said side). Going from a "lawyer" (being on a side and picking and choosing the cases I'm involved with) to being a "judge" (having to step a bit away from personal feelings and having to view all cases) will be a shift in how I've frequently approached threads.
I'd like @Log and @NWF_Renim to give their opinions here. They're my top picks in the first place. jxh2154 mentioned @Toks but I don't think he's that active.
Yeah, I haven't had time for the forums in the last couple months, so I won't be able to be an effective decision-maker anytime soon.
Unfortunately my hours have increased at work so I have to choose carefully what I do with my precious little free time, I still try to read most topics but there's more times than not that I don't have time to do any more than glance over walls of text. Sorry guys.
Another admin wouldn't hurt. There were several fine candidates mentioned, I throw Type-kun into the mix. I think the mods should decide, though, they should know best who can do what.
About the time consumption, what about two or maybe more people sharing the job? Whoever first stumbles upon a problem and has time solves it. If needed one can take some vacation.
