Misumi Uika Tagging Issues (major Ave Mujica ep. 11 spoilers)

Wake up babe, new convoluted AveMygo tagging problem just dropped.

Episode 11 consists of a girl standing alone on a stage in an empty theatre and performing a uninterrupted 20-minute long monologue, and it's kino, and it creates two lovely new tagging dilemmas for us.

Problem #1: Family Tags. Out of fucking nowhere, Uika and Sakiko are revealed to actually be aunt and niece. I think the answer here is obvious—adding these tags to any posts of the two girls would be such an enormous spoiler that it would be a terrible idea. Often, spoilerey tags are added once the show has been out for a while, and we can deal with that later, but I'd sort of prefer to never tag it even once the show is no longer current. It would involve tagging it on over a thousand posts that were not drawn with any knowledge that the two girls were related.

Of course, there's a fuck ton of yuri featuring the two of them, which technically is now all incest. Obviously incest is generally a non-optional tag, as some people really hate it and want to blacklist it, but I think it's such a huge spoiler that we should at the very least wait a decent amount of time before starting to add that.

Any posts specifically referencing their relationship should obviously be tagged with spoilers.

Problem #2: Uika isn't actually Uika. This one is a thornier problem. The character we knew as Misumi Uika is actually a girl named Misumi Hatsune, whose younger half-sister (who we've only seen a very brief glimpse of) is the actual Misumi Uika. Again, obviously huge spoiler problems with having the tags reflect their true names, so I'm in favour leaving the blond idol that we know and love as Uika, and creating a new tag for her sister.

But what the fuck should we tag her sister as? Misumi Uika (sister)? I'm open to suggestions. There will be art of her. I've already seen some, but I'm probably going to keep it in my assets until I know how to tag it. Ideally I'd like some way of tagging her that's not going to be a spoiler, but I'm sort of stumped on what the chartag should be.

I think, at least for now, I'd like to see how this gets properly resolved in the story before thinking to hard about any changes.

I like the idea of keeping the current Uika tag as Uika since that's what we know her as, but episode 11 left a bunch of open questions regarding who exactly is who and what their relationships are. Unlike with the Mortis situation I don't think there'll be too much of a flood here, so I'd prefer to just keep posts explicitly mentioning or featuring the other Uika spoiler tagged and in a pool, so it can be updated in 1 or possibly 2 weeks when the story should be fully resolved.

Some of the tagging will be technically inaccurate for a while, and missing incest-related tags. People that are upset should just blacklist the chartags for now until we can figure it out.

Could treat it like we do with Tohno Shiki's identity theft of Tohno Shiki and just have uhhh Misumi Uika (2). Or Misumi Uika (original).

Anyways I don't go here so I don't have much other input other than just waiting a little bit longer.

Ylimegirl said:

Could treat it like we do with Tohno Shiki's identity theft of Tohno Shiki and just have uhhh Misumi Uika (2). Or Misumi Uika (original).

Anyways I don't go here so I don't have much other input other than just waiting a little bit longer.

Oh interesting. While I don't particularly like the qualifier of (2), from my understanding this situation does seem broadly similar enough for the solution to be applicable here, that's useful to keep in mind.

ANON_TOKYO said:

I think, at least for now, I'd like to see how this gets properly resolved in the story before thinking tok hard about any changes.

I like the idea of keeping the current Uika tag as Uika since that's what we know her as, but episode 11 left a bunch of open questions regarding who exactly is who and what their relationships are. Unlike with the Mortis situation I don't think there'll be too much of a flood here, so I'd prefer to just keep posts explicitly mentioning or featuring the other Uika spoiler tagged and in a pool, so it can be updated in 1 or possibly 2 weeks when the story should be fully resolved.

Some of the tagging will be technically inaccurate for a while, and missing incest-related tags. People that are upset should just blacklist the chartags for now until we can figure it out.

This works for me. Don't add any incest tags or new chartags for now, spoilers for anything explicitly referencing ep 11, pool for any posts of her sister, then come to a final decision after the show is done and whatever insanity the writers decide to pull next has been revealed.

I was going to suggest treating it like Yoshizawa Kasumi of Persona 5, IE putting a note in the wiki about the spoiler and keeping our tagging conventions the same, but since it sounds like the other one is still alive that complicates things.

If you don't like (2) perhaps you could phrase it in terms of (elder) and (younger) to keep the appearance of the sisters having the same name.

Either way, good luck MyGo enthusiasts 🫡

Cinnamon_Toast said:

... it sounds like the other one is still alive ...

maybe. Uika (Hatsune?) was also the narrator who revealed this, and she's known for lying. Combined with there being quite a few holes in her story, unfortunately (or fortunately, since maybe the end result is simpler) nothing is certain yet.

ANON_TOKYO said:

maybe. Uika (Hatsune?) was also the narrator who revealed this, and she's known for lying. Combined with there being quite a few holes in her story, unfortunately (or fortunately, since maybe the end result is simpler) nothing is certain yet.

It's quite possible the whole thing was made up, yeah. As you said, there are quite a lot of holes in Hatsune/Uika's story, a reference to Munchausen Syndrome, etc, etc. Best to just wait for more story to be revealed before we jump to making new tags and adding tags.

I think that the "real" Uika tag should be just that: Misumi_Uika_(real), similar to Shinjou_Akane_(real), unless information revealed in the next two episodes gives reason to feel that that would be an unintuitive or illogical disambiguation. I've also seen some fans take up the moniker of "Uika Prime" but I think that'd be silly, making it sound like she's from an alternate timeline or something (should possibly be included as an alternate name though).

Just chiming in: while I don't expect a curveball now, I'm still of the opinion that we might as well wait it out now, since there's only a week left.

I pre-emptively added the aunt_and_niece tag to some of the Uisaki posts after episode 11 to stoke the conversation - you guys can remove the tag and associated related ones (such as incest) in posts like those (except for the posts that references the reveal in question) if you want.

I recommend you guys waiting until the end of the month - by that point, the anime will have ended.

AbsoluteRainbow said:

I pre-emptively added the aunt_and_niece tag to some of the Uisaki posts after episode 11 to stoke the conversation - you guys can remove the tag and associated related ones (such as incest) in posts like those (except for the posts that references the reveal in question) if you want.

I recommend you guys waiting until the end of the month - by that point, the anime will have ended.

If you're going to add the tag to posts, you should probably also add the spoilers tag, if you haven't already. Anyways uh, I'm not sure why you're preemptively tagging while also recommending others to wait it out? It's not like retroactively adding these tags would be hard and it seems like conflicting advice.

AbsoluteRainbow said:

I pre-emptively added the aunt_and_niece tag to some of the Uisaki posts after episode 11 to stoke the conversation - you guys can remove the tag and associated related ones (such as incest) in posts like those (except for the posts that references the reveal in question) if you want.

I recommend you guys waiting until the end of the month - by that point, the anime will have ended.

I've undone those edits. Would you be so kind to actually read the conversation you're interacting with?

ANON_TOKYO said:

I've undone those edits. Would you be so kind to actually read the conversation you're interacting with?

Ok ok ok! I will!

Okay, thank god it didn't get more complicated. Personally, I've warmed up to the idea of either misumi_uika_(real) or misumi_uika_(sister), with a slight preference for the former. I don't think it's practical to rename the current tag.

As for the incest tagging situation, I recall there being other similar situations, but as they never were in series I was interested in, I never paid too much attention to how that was solved. Do we tag it? Do we wait half a year? Do we just not? The problem I can foresee with waiting is that it'd probably require upkeep by the way of actively removing the tag, which seems a bit silly.

I'm not changing my name to ANON HELSINKI, by the way.

Honestly I think we should just stick to "Tag what you see, not what you know" , and only add in the tags if explicitly mentioned by the art itself or the commentary.

A sort of similar example I can think of is for Umineko where any Battler x Beato/Kanon/Shannon art is not tagged as incest since that is also itself a surprise aunt x nephew twist.

As for the real Uika, I agree with the Persona 5 approach above where you can label it as something like misumi_uika's_sister and elaborate on it in the actual wiki page.

ANON_TOKYO said:
I'm not changing my name to ANON HELSINKI, by the way.

Agreed, ANON OSLO has a better ring to it.

Zansnae793 said:

Honestly I think we should just stick to "Tag what you see, not what you know" , and only add in the tags if explicitly mentioned by the art itself or the commentary.

A sort of similar example I can think of is for Umineko where any Battler x Beato/Kanon/Shannon art is not tagged as incest since that is also itself a surprise aunt x nephew twist.

That's… actually a really good comparison, especially with how much Umineko is. I'd say that's an okay angle to take. they're not only aunt/nephew but also cousins because kinzo is the worst

Especially given there's apparently precedent for it this seems like a good approach to me.

Out of all the options I think my preference would be for Misumi Uika's sister. That's the least spoilery name for it, since there's plenty of tags out there like that for side characters without actual names.

On the incest issue, I'm torn. On one hand, it is definitely incest. TWYS has no application to family relations tags, those are always tagged canonically. They're related, pictures of them fucking are pictures of incest, and they should be tagged as such.

On the other hand, there's very significant spoiler concerns. There are also a solid 600 posts, uploaded prior to the reveal, that we would need to go back and tag as incest, when the artist at the time had no idea they were drawing incest and none of the fans saw it as incest.

I tend to prefer the latter, mainly due to the spoiler issue. Any post specifically referencing incest should be tagged as such plus spoilers. Posts like post #9068565 that reference "Hatsune" should also be tagged spoilers.

Misumi Uika's sister (which I see you've made by now) seems good to me, it's neutral enough. I'm also still on board with the described approach w.r.t. gentags. As you said, those old works weren't drawn with incest in mind with both the artist and the audience, which just adds to the downsides of applying it broadly.