Posted under Tags
I suggest including both sets of tags. The point of tags is to have relevant posts come up in searches, and this post could conceivably be relevant to both yaoi and yuri searches. But if that's not an option... the post is also tagged as sisters, and it's a bit odd for that tag to be used in a post with no *girls tag.
someone searching 2girls 2boys expects pictures that feature 4 people (not including any potential characters tagged with "other" tags), not 2 individuals whose taggable gender we cannot agree upon
ANON_TOKYO said:
I still don't see how that goes against the usual "tag what you see except if you know more" given that they're trans, on hormones, and generally just live life as their preferred gender. It's seemingly sufficient for fictional characters to go for the reasonable assumption like this, so why not here. Unless we're suddenly deciding that this combination triggers "further pedantry".
You can phrase your argument however you want, but at the end of the day this topic is advocating for adding a picture of two men kissing IRL to yuri. The only convincing argument that's coming out of this topic is that cosplay photos should be banned instead of being in a grey area.
nonamethanks said:
You can phrase your argument however you want, but at the end of the day this topic is advocating for adding a picture of two men kissing IRL to yuri. The only convincing argument that's coming out of this topic is that cosplay photos should be banned instead of being in a grey area.
If you remove all the nuance, then yes maybe.
I see no issue if "let's leave it since it's just a cosplay photo anyway" is the preferred solution though.
I view treating real life cosplay differently from artwork as only weakly justifiable for tags like siblings for similar reasoning that even convincing crossplay is tagged for what it is: an act. There's also potential ambiguity of whether tags are for the people or who they are cosplaying, hypothetically two real world siblings dressed as unrelated characters.
nonamethanks said:
You can phrase your argument however you want, but at the end of the day this topic is advocating for adding a picture of two men kissing IRL to yuri. The only convincing argument that's coming out of this topic is that cosplay photos should be banned instead of being in a grey area.
at what point would they, in your opinion, be taggable as women, though? the two cosplayers are not hardcore pornography actors, therefore we likely will not get to see their genitals. we also cannot rely on any of them potentially undergoing sex reassignment surgeries (specifically breast and genital surgeries) for tagging information, as this is a private matter they might not be willing to broadcast to the world (though one of them has reported undergoing facial surgery, if memory serves me correctly). given they have reported undergoing hormone replacement therapy, they may potentially experience breast growth, though the extent of noticability depends on personal predispositions and choice of clothing.
if any indication of furthering transition past HRT and dressing appropriately, was to come to light, would only new photos past that get to be tagged as female, or would old ones also get to be retagged, as long as they pass in those?
g6672D said:
I view treating real life cosplay differently from artwork as only weakly justifiable for tags like siblings for similar reasoning that even convincing crossplay is tagged for what it is: an act. There's also potential ambiguity of whether tags are for the people or who they are cosplaying, hypothetically two real world siblings dressed as unrelated characters.
I don't think that this cosplay of siblings should be tagged as incest so by extension I don't think any of them should have the siblings tag. We wouldn't use drawn cosplay tags with those tags and I don't think the cosplay photo images should get them either.
While we're on the topic I also think that these images should be tagged flandre_scarlet_(cosplay) instead of just Flan, this would also allow us to remove the genderswap tag from any crossplay. I don't know if the _(cosplay) tags existed back when most of these were upped but we should have consistency across 2d and 3d.
In that case in order to maintain consistency we should also remove the siblings tag (as well as the associated brother_and_sister, sisters, etc) from post #7831403, post #7665927, post #7656959 and post #5427637
Jemnite said:
In that case in order to maintain consistency we should also remove the siblings tag (as well as the associated brother_and_sister, sisters, etc) from post #7831403, post #7665927, post #7656959 and post #5427637
Yeah I would agree to that though I'm not going to move them unless an agreement is reached.
This post both not being approved and tagged incorrectly as 2boys is completely nonsensical
edit: okay i don't really care if this is deleted or not.
Updated
nonamethanks said:
Ah yes, precisely what someone looking for lesbians wants to see: two men kissing.
Where are there boys kissing? I also don't see how anyone searching for male focus would be interested. Seems like it would be straightforward to tag as girls/yuri, honestly how would someone searching two girls kissing be disappointed to find this post? Should just have a transgender tag for depictions and representations of people verifiably transitioning or post transition, that way people who don't want to see transgender people can just block the tag.
Enforcing the orthodoxy that sex != gender, trans people don't exist, and that sex is an innate and 100% reliably discernible binary that all human beings fall into and cannot modify leads to this bizarre arrangement where a trans person on HRT, post-facial surgery, living IRL as their gender would to be mistagged as boy.
Updated
@sinfulporcupine said:
BUR #36697 has been rejected.
mass update id:8825295 -> -2boys -otoko_no_ko -crossdressing -yaoi -multiple_boys -male_focus 2girls yuri
Because of "tag what you see", I up-voted this: it should be tagged 2girls yuri for sure, and therefore removing the male general tags makes sense.
However, there should be a way to indicate that the post involves crossdressing you can't see.
If not a new tag, otoko no ko should be converted to a meta tag. It depends on whether otoko no ko has posts you can tell are otoko no ko (when not referenced as a topic in dialogue) or if it's all just canon tagging.
nonamethanks said:
Ah yes, precisely what someone looking for lesbians wants to see: two men kissing.
How can you tell?
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LQ said:
However, there should be a way to indicate that the post involves crossdressing you can't see.
In this case based on the comprehensive transvestigation from earlier, we know that this is two trans women. if there's a need for a new tag it would be tagging person count by gender id and have a tag for trans people
Yeah, same idea but for transgender people too. Either under the same tag or a separate tag.
It might be a good use case for the propsoed 4th tag typo, like "theme tags". No one can realistically see transgenderness or otoko no koness from the image itself (and therefore should not be tagged), so if not a meta tag, transgender/otoko no ko could be theme tags in the future.
LQ said:
Yeah, same idea but for transgender people too. Either under the same tag or a separate tag.
It might be a good use case for the propsoed 4th tag typo, like "theme tags". No one can realistically see transgenderness or otoko no koness from the image itself (and therefore should not be tagged), so if not a meta tag, transgender/otoko no ko could be theme tags in the future.
gender_nonconformity?
No we know that going by the last two pages it's a nightmare to tag with those two being so cheerfully vague and how differing the interpretation is from here. People generally don't like when you try to play games with the sex tags in the same way that convincing traps don't get allowed to. Additionally, real life differs from artwork in that you can't just handwave it as fantasy. I'm voting to leave it as-is with 2boys, or at most move it to 2other.
LQ said:
How can you tell?
The face of the guy dressed as Remilia is no different from the face of a normal Asian male idol.
final_name said:
Enforcing the orthodoxy that sex != gender, trans people don't exist, and that sex is an innate and 100% reliably discernible binary that all human beings fall into and cannot modify leads to this bizarre arrangement where a trans person on HRT, post-facial surgery, living IRL as their gender would to be mistagged as boy.
This opinion is the flagpole of the Western European nomenclature, and therefore has absolutely no weight in the dispute. How will you prove that it is correct if I say that I was told something completely different as a child? It turns out to be a neutral parity.
That is why it is obvious to me that this discussion does not make sense, at least because of the clash of worldviews (and yours cannot be superior simply because it seems to you that it is more ideal) and the only outcome will be the decision of one person with his own opinion - the owner of the site.
Or, in this case (if there are no threats of legislation, as in the case of one "topic" of 2020), the status quo that was formed at the very beginning of the site should be continued.
nonamethanks said:
The only convincing argument that's coming out of this topic is that cosplay photos should be banned instead of being in a grey area.
I agree. Time to remember the first line of the Compliance Statement: Danbooru is an image hosting website which allows for the uploading, sharing, and viewing of illustrations, drawings, and computer-generated artwork. + Requiring all uploaded content to be drawn or computer generated artwork. (None of Danbooru's descriptions mention cosplay photo)
ANON_TOKYO said:
But it already does change because it's a photo:
I don't want to get ridiculously pedantic, but this practice already seems to imply we treat the cosplayer as the "medium" with which they depict the character.
I think you've confused plus with minus. Borderline content is, on the contrary, content with fewer "rights" and a stricter attitude towards itself, and not something that deserves some special exceptions. A real person, like a character, can have their own story written with similar details, and for me personally, separating them is someone's advanced preferences, who considers cosplay photo something full-fledged.
------A small comment about the whole thread:
If you want to say once again that you personally don't see men here, think about the designations of the term "trap" at your leisure.
Updated
NerveControl said:
The face of the guy dressed as Remilia is no different from the face of a normal Asian male idol.
This is an extremely subjective measure that also doesn't even work when things such as tomboys exist.
This opinion is the flagpole of the Western European nomenclature, and therefore has absolutely no weight in the dispute. How will you prove that it is correct if I say that I was told something completely different as a child? It turns out to be a neutral parity.
That is why it is obvious to me that this discussion does not make sense, at least because of the clash of worldviews (and yours cannot be superior simply because it seems to you that it is more ideal) and the only outcome will be the decision of one person with his own opinion - the owner of the site.
Or, in this case (if there are no threats of legislation, as in the case of one "topic" of 2020), the status quo that was formed at the very beginning of the site should be continued.
What kind of culture war are you imagining. The site is 20 years old, society is going to change no matter how conservative you may be.
final_name said:
gender_nonconformity?
I like this as a catch-all tag that the other two tags could imply.
NerveControl said:
The face of the guy dressed as Remilia is no different from the face of a normal Asian male idol.
That's fair, but that would at least make it 1boy 1girl hetero, as you can't tell the Flandre cosplayer is a boy. Which would seem extra wrong. I also don't think most people would have that level of perception for the Remilia cosplayer, so it something so subtle should not be tagged as a boy.
