Clearing up kebabs

BUR #35151 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias kebab -> shish_kebab
remove alias kebab -> shish_kebab
rename doner_kebab -> doner_sandwich
create alias shawarma_sandwich -> doner_sandwich
create alias shawarma -> doner_kebab
deprecate kebab

I think it is about time we cleaned up the usage of kebab and related tags. Kebab is being used currently specifically for shish kebab (and anything resembling it, like yakitori), but because kebab is also the common term to refer to doner kebab (which is cooking the meat on a vertical rotisserie, and dishes which use said meat, often shortened to just 'doner'), you have those being tagged despite the tag on Danbooru for doner kebab being shawarma. But if the most common term is doner kebab, why aren't we using that? Because doner kebab is being used to tag the wraps and sandwiches, despite gyro also being a tag for doner kebab wraps/sandwiches, just the Greek variety.

So it's kind of complicated right now, and I want to try and make a push to clear it up. Due to the ambiguity of kebab, that needs to be sorted out, and the current doner kebab tag needs to specify its nature referring specifically to the sandwich which uses doner kebab, which allows its tag to be used for what is currently tagged as shawarma. Doner wraps are currently divided between wrap (food) and gyro, so unless we want to make a merged doner_wrap tag which gyro aliases into (along with durum_kebab), I'll avoid including that in this BUR.

There's also the question of whether we actually want doner kebab as a tag, given how it is both for the cooking method (represented in vertical rotisserie) and dishes featuring the meat (which would be doner sandwich and doner wrap/gyro), but I think there's a use for it, especially with vertical rotisserie featuring posts that are for al pastor tacos (unless we want to separate al pastor and doner kebab uses of vertical rotisserie into their own tags, which feels like overkill).

downvoting for renaming doner kebab. that's not a sandwich

sinning said:

downvoting for renaming doner kebab. that's not a sandwich

Technically speaking, according to the wiki and to real life, you're wrong. The existing doner kebab wiki refers to it as a 'dish', and mentions how the meat is 'typically served in a warm pita bread with fresh vegetables and a creamy sauce,' contrasting how shawarma's current wiki explicitly distinguishes the cooking method from the dishes that are often just referred to by the name of the cooking method; which leads directly to the real life usage of 'doner kebab' to explicitly refer to doner kebab sandwiches, or doner sandwiches for short. Most in the West would just say 'a doner kebab' if they wanted to get a sandwich with the meat, which is ambiguous with the cooking method, so explicitly distinguishing the sandwich from the method is necessary. Aliasing shawarma to doner kebab without first dealing with the existing doner kebab tag would just maintain that ambiguity (and since both tags have wikis too, it'd lead to the older of the two wikis getting nuked if the newer isn't moved first).

"doner wrap" yields more results than "doner sandwich", for what it's worth.

LQ said:

"doner wrap" yields more results than "doner sandwich", for what it's worth.

Well, that's because those are two different things. The existing doner kebab tag has more sandwiches than it does wraps, technically speaking (4 to 3), and if the BUR is approved, the wraps will be moved to their own tag (along with discussing the fate of gyro in its own BUR).

Ah; that's somewhat confusing. Because the tags are so small, it might be worth pre-populating some of them if there're two distinct objects to tag (other than being prepared the same way, which isn't at all pictured), rather than waiting for a change. There's a lot being proposed at once here without actually moving that many posts (though the aliases will be handy).

The bulk update request #35151 (forum #328789) has been approved by @evazion.

BUR #35956 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias gyro -> doner_wrap
remove alias gyro -> doner_wrap
create alias gyro_(food) -> doner_wrap
create alias gyros -> doner_wrap
create alias durum_kebab -> doner_wrap
create alias shawarma_wrap -> doner_wrap

With that dealt with, I gardened out the wraps from doner sandwich and made doner wrap, but now here comes the controversal thing I want to suggest.

I do not think that, art-wise, you can really distinguish between a gyro and a doner wrap. Now, people would argue that you can, because a gyro is typically wrapped in a thicker pita flatbread, while a doner wrap, or specifically a dürüm kebab, uses a thinner flatbread like a lavash or a yufka, and while a gyro has an uneven open end, a doner wrap has an even one. However, if you actually search up "doner wrap", "shawarma wrap" or "kebab wrap" on Google, you'll find that such a distinction doesn't hold, with plenty of examples making such wraps in the way said to be unique to gyros. Alright, then they might argue that you could tell based on the filling, but that's also not going to work, because someone could just as easily say something like post #5068646 is a doner wrap.

So I would like to suggest we alias gyro into the new doner wrap tag, and use its wiki for said tag. In the process, we could also deal with the fact that gyro is an ambiguous term, and change it out for an alias adding both a food qualifier as well as an additional utility alias, because searching gyros would net you gyroscope instead, as well as synonyms for searchability.

The bulk update request #35956 (forum #332306) has been approved by @evazion.