Cure form -> human form implications (Precure)

BUR #23085 has been rejected.

(Related topics: topic #26219 for Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon, topic #26208 for Mahou Shoujo ni Akogarete, topic #23010 for magical girl copyrights as a whole but especially Madoka Magica)

Up to this point, the status quo has been that Magical Girl copyrights that get named Magical Girl forms should not have implications between those forms and human forms. However, this seems to contradict general character implication practices otherwise. This BUR attempts to alleviate that for Precure.

I am not familiar with Precure myself, and I only based myself off our List of Pretty Cure Characters wiki page. I would greatly appreciate feedback from actual Precure fans, especially given that the list made it seem like there are non-cure Magical Girls and some superpowered forms and whatnot that I might not be representing properly.

Second BUR incoming as the max size of a BUR is 100.

BUR #23086 has been rejected.

create implication cure_lillian -> nekoyashiki_mayu
create implication cure_nyammy -> nekoyashiki_yuki

Remaining lines.

What about when a different character is cosplaying as a Cure? The Cure's civilian persona wouldn't be present in the image, which could potentially cause tag pollution for the civilian form.

We already have gacha tags with exactly the same problem, like florence_nightingale_(trick_or_treatment)_(fate)_(cosplay)...? That wouldn't be exclusive to Cures.

KagayakuShiningGate said:

We already have gacha tags with exactly the same problem, like florence_nightingale_(trick_or_treatment)_(fate)_(cosplay)...? That wouldn't be exclusive to Cures.

From my understanding, magical girls (and by extension magical boys) are considered to be changing forms (thus the term henshin, or "transformation"), rather than just costumes like in gacha games. This is particularly true with Precure (but not exclusively) where the character's physical appearance changes almost entirely, like their hair color and length, eye color, and even their age. For other non-Precure examples, look at Kusakabe Maron -> Kaitou Jeanne, Chacha (Akazukin Chacha) -> Magical Princess, Kazuki Mai -> Magical Emi, or Morisawa Yuu -> Creamy Mami, just to name a few.

Yes, I do agree that the majority of magical girls are just changing clothes without altering their physical appearance, which would warrant the implications. But those niche examples of a character's physical appearance changing as well makes it difficult to imply every single magical girl identity to their civilian identity. I wouldn't be totally against the implications if it makes tagging more convenient, but it could also cause potential tag noise when it comes to cosplays.

I guess I'm just ambivalent about the subject, and am just bringing up cosplays as a thorny contention to the proposal. I think it's because I'm not certain on Danbooru's opinion as a whole concerning if magical girls are actually just changing clothes, or are fully changing forms.

Second what Benit said. Off the top of my head I can already think of a bunch of posts that wouldn't benefit from this at all. Throwing off BURs like this ignoring all the concerns I brought up in the other threads and not having solutions for them is not convincing me.

Does the whole "changing form" vs "changing clothes" thing really matter? Going back to Madoka Magica, my actual field of expertise, the implications for both Ultimate Madoka (topic #21544) and Kaname Madoka (swimsuit ver.) (forum #225891) got through, even though they're in the "physically changing form" category (with Ultimate Madoka also having more pronounced changes to eye and hair color + length); just like Kaname Madoka (swimsuit costume) (which is in the "changing clothes" category) implication did.
And Sailor Moon's further powered up forms, like Eternal Sailor Moon implicate the main Sailor Moon tag. Costume vs transformation really doesn't matter.

KagayakuShiningGate said:

Does the whole "changing form" vs "changing clothes" thing really matter? Going back to Madoka Magica, my actual field of expertise, the implications for both Ultimate Madoka (topic #21544) and Kaname Madoka (swimsuit ver.) (forum #225891) got through, even though they're in the "physically changing form" category (with Ultimate Madoka also having more pronounced changes to eye and hair color + length); just like Kaname Madoka (swimsuit costume) (which is in the "changing clothes" category) implication did.
[…]
Costume vs transformation really doesn't matter.

It's not just about being technically correct, but also the common dissociation between magical girl identity and civilian identity. It's a real thing in the genre. Of course every copyright does it differently with different degrees of intensity, I'm not gonna speak for everyone. Like Madoka Magica doesn't even have names for the magical forms and Ultimate Madoka outright uses Madoka's name, hence much less detachment.

But I can tell you that Precure does it. With hair and eye color change at a minimum, but also hair growth and changes on physical age. There're even quite a few that changed species. Calling each other with different names. Treating it pretty seriously, thus its viewers has adapted the same mindset.
This is further reinforced (albeit disappointing for fans) when adult yes 5 gogo and splash stars cures transformed back , they shrank back to their middle school body.

And from a user point of view, I don't want to see people cosplaying Cure Black in my Misumi Nagisa search.

KagayakuShiningGate said:

And Sailor Moon's further powered up forms, like Eternal Sailor Moon implicate the main Sailor Moon tag.

Exactly, it implies Sailor Moon, not Tsukino Usagi. What does that have to do with the above arguments? I would definitely upvote for implications of alternate forms of the Cures, there's A LOT of them.

KagayakuShiningGate said:

Does the whole "changing form" vs "changing clothes" thing really matter?

I would think it does, primarily to standardize how magical girls are tagged on Danbooru. It's not the same as with alternate costumes for gachas and VTubers. Those are just clothes with names attached to them. With magical girls, they are full-on alternate identities. As magcolo said:

magolo said:

It's not just about being technically correct, but also the common dissociation between magical girl identity and civilian identity. It's a real thing in the genre.

Thus, to apply how a gacha tags its alternate costumes to every other genre out there would be doing a major disservice to those other genres. Yes, on the surface, "changing form" vs. "changing clothes" is a meta concept, especially when Danbooru's golden rule is "tag what you see". However, understanding how to approach those meta situations is just as important as tagging what is visually present in an image. It's important to respect how each genre treats its characters.

Ultimately, my opinion is that the magical girl identity should remain separate from the civilian identity for two reasons; to respect the magical girl genre, and to avoid tag noise regarding cosplays.

Now implying a magical girl's upgraded forms would not cause any harm, like eternal sailor moon -> sailor moon; or cure heart (parthenon mode) & cure heart (engage mode) -> cure heart; or prisma illya (zwei form) -> prisma illya.

Degree of transform probably should have some weight in decision making, especially depending on the degree of transformation. Some of these the character not only goes through a body change, but even personality shifts.

Here are some major changed transformations:

Base Character -> Transformed
Neptune (post #5571720) -> Purple Heart (post #6072855)
Pish (post #6072855) -> Yellow Heart (post #3939453)
Pururut (post #3392769) -> Iris Heart (post #5146436)
Mitsuka Souji (post #1830693) -> Tailred (post #1830934)
Kouyama Mitsuki -> Full Moon (post #3742464, base left and transformation right)

From a non-magical girl series, but similar.
Gettou Motoko -> Hibiki or Mikiri or Fujiko (post #343546, base on the right)

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