Posted under Tags
BUR #22687 has been rejected.
nuke primarch
See topic #26066 and topic #25213 for other discussions surrounding this tag.
Do we need it? Functionally, it's essentially a repeat of the old akatsuki (naruto) tag, a canon catch-all tag for a group of characters with seemingly the only shared trait being their above average size, which is rarely depicted and not even a feature unique to Primarchs within the series.
BUR #22688 has been rejected.
nuke daemon_prince
nuke demon_primarch
Other tags I found that as far as I can tell function exactly like primarch. If someone finds others, please mention them.
Holy... for your talk of "going behind the communitys back" please don't tell me you made a separate "counter bur" because people said you were being a bit harsh in https://danbooru.donmai.us/forum_topics/26066 which is less than a day old?
Again, since this turned a bit into people not into 40k talking about whether a 40k tag is viable paging people also in the fandom before a tag the fandom uses gets unintentionally screwed over by people not in the fandom. @Diet_Soda @winkywonker @coga @ilnarnar @NNescio @nonamethanks @Cort321 @Xhydralisk
Please don't start making assumptions about someone's intentions right after complaining about someone making assumptions about your intentions. Also please stop claiming I'm "outside the fandom" just because I'm not as knowledgeable about the copyright as you, that's pretty damn rude, and after specifically requesting people with "at least surface interest" in the copyright.
I made these BURs because as a user of Danbooru I have issues with these tags and question their usefulness. I made these BURs to get the opinion of other users. It's not comparable to someone manually changing a tag's category after the majority rejected the change. That's not something that's immediately visible to anyone that doesn't know where to look, unlike a forum topic everyone can see.
Oh, and for the record, if these BURs get rejected, I'm not going to go and manually nuke the tags just so I can get my way.
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blindVigil said:
Please don't start making assumptions about someone's intentions right after complaining about someone making assumptions about your intentions. Also please stop claiming I'm "outside the fandom" just because I'm not as knowledgeable about the copyright as you, that's pretty damn rude, and after specifically requesting people with "at least surface interest" in the copyright.
I made these BURs because as a user of Danbooru I have issues with these tags and question their usefulness. I made these BURs to get the opinion of other users. It's not comparable to someone manually changing a tag's category after the majority rejected the change. That's not something that's immediately visible to anyone that doesn't know where to look, unlike a forum topic everyone can see.
And multiple "users of danbooru" had issues with what you are suggesting for the reasons described in the previous conversation as well as telling you you were stirring drama a bit.
For those out of the loop: a discussion about another implication lead to someone asking why a specific tag existed and being told the tag was useful for searching, followed by me saying (while mentioning how I hated how it sounded and blamed my own bad ability to explain) that to avoid making bad changes people not in the fandom should look into what a primarch was before arguing against about the primarch tag.
Also the "outside the fandom" wasn't even directed at you, it was said to sasi.
the tags will just be recreated regardless of the outcome, there's a reason why they existed in the first place, it's because the fandom created them just like how the superhero fandom created the superhero or supervillain tag
and don't play sly and hide behind your logic, not everyone on this site goes by your ideas of what you think should and should not pass on here, I think it's time that sank don't you think
Dodo1 said:
And multiple "users of danbooru" had issues with what you are suggesting for the reasons described in the previous conversation as well as telling you you were stirring drama a bit.
Two users. One of whom wasn't even part of the original discussion, and only showed up to the second one because you pinged them. There seem to be way more than two who also question the tag's usefulness. So... We'll see how the votes pan out.
winkywonker said:
the tags will just be recreated regardless of the outcome, there's a reason why they existed in the first place, it's because the fandom created them just like how the superhero fandom created the superhero or supervillain tag
If people recreate nuked tags, we'll nuke them again and deprecate them so they can't be repopulated. Approved BUR nukes are not suggestions. Unless you can convince people to undo the nuke, you don't get to just decide if it sticks or not.
and don't play sly and hide behind your logic, not everyone on this site goes by your ideas of what you think should and should not pass on here, I think it's time that sank don't you think
You can give up the shit stirring, I'm not interested.
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blindVigil said:
Two users. One of whom wasn't even part of the original discussion, and only showed up to the second one because you pinged them. There seem to be way more than two who also question the tag's usefulness. So... We'll see how the votes pan out.
Yeah, to avoid bad faith changes like this getting voted in because people who used the tag weren't around when, you know, you created a separate post to do it.
We said it before and I will say what I said again, you are getting weirdly personal. Please stop "bur warring" or whatever this would be called. You started with the weirdly personal stuff then said others were stirring drama or whatnot when called out on it. Please take a break.
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Edit to avoid bumping this mess, I suggest others do the same or dm if they want to talk.
@winkywonker said:
you wear your pettiness on your sleeve like a badge of honor so excuse me for reacting, what you've done here is unnecessary.
the tag is used a lot by a lot of people, it damages nothing to keep it around, the only way I can see this is an abuse of power backed by ignorance of the lore that does justify the tag, you're just petty, and this courtesy you're all of a sudden showing now just feels like a hidden middle finger.
@Cort321 said:
I am confused, why was I contacted? I like 40k and agree that the tags shouldn't be removed even though the layperson would probably not able to tell the difference.
Wanted the opinion of people actually in the fandom because I feared tag discussing was being colored by people who weren't and might screw over searching unintentionally. (Unlike what vigil said I wanted that regardless of whether they agree with my take or not). I won't involve you more, just adding that as a clarification to anyone pinged.
winkywonker said:
you wear your pettiness on your sleeve like a badge of honor so excuse me for reacting, what you've done here is unnecessary.
the tag is used a lot by a lot of people, it damages nothing to keep it around, the only way I can see this is an abuse of power backed by ignorance of the lore that does justify the tag, you're just petty, and this courtesy you're all of a sudden showing now just feels like a hidden middle finger.
Okay, I cracked a smile at that. But I suggest just not bumping any of this anymore. I don't even know vigil and don't want to create some weird grudge between us either. I already told mods this was going completely derailed and was hoping to have the thread locked but no answer so let's just not bump it.
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Dodo1 said:
Holy... for your talk of "going behind the communitys back" please don't tell me you made a separate "counter bur" because people said you were being a bit harsh in https://danbooru.donmai.us/forum_topics/26066 which is less than a day old?
This is a public forum, of which anyone can view its contents at any time, so I really don't understand what you're trying to illuminate here. Also, it would be inappropriate to clog discussion of a topic about implying things to primarch with a discussion of nuking primarch.
Again, since this turned a bit into people not into 40k talking about whether a 40k tag is viable paging people also in the fandom before a tag the fandom uses gets unintentionally screwed over by people not in the fandom.
Again, that's kind of what happens when you put things on a public domain. Danbooru's tags do not exist to satiate certain groups of users, and if their usefulness stops being obvious to the majority, it's time to consider retiring them. Don't you think people "not in the fandom" are more likely to be objective than those involved?
And multiple "users of danbooru" had issues with what you are suggesting for the reasons described in the previous conversation as well as telling you you were stirring drama a bit.
Two's company and three's a crowd. You can't point at data and say "look at all my support" when the only two opinions that have done literally anything but question these tags are you and your buddy.
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It's called "making a bur to improve the site." Whether or not it actually goes through is ultimately up to the admins and if they think the site is better without the tag, even if it was unanimously voted one way or the other.
Maybe you should take a break, and stop accusing people of abusing BURs? There's nothing wrong with this BUR, or me making it. It's not necessary to wait for existing BURs to be settled, and I made a separate thread for it because that other thread was initially supposed to be about Primarch being a character tag and having several other character tags implicate it. Adding a BUR to the end of an existing thread, technically about a separate debate, especially one that seems like the discussion might go on for a while, hurts its visibility. It's to your "benefit" just as much as mine (not that I'm taking this anywhere near as personal as you are or think I am) for it to have its own thread sitting at the top of the first page where it's easy to see.
If people want to discuss the tag's continued existence, I would personally advise they do it here. The other thread is basically settled at this point, with someone having changed Primarch back to a gentag. That BUR literally can't be approved now unless you can convince people that it should be a character tag, and that particular discussion was already settled months ago.
blindVigil said:
They exist because anyone familiar with western comics could tell you what a superhero or supervillain looks like. "They wear spandex and their underwear on the outside" have been enduring memes about western comics for decades for a reason. The concept is so recognizable All Might was specifically designed to resemble them, even having different outfits during his career that corresponded to the "Bronze", "Silver", "Gold", ect. ages of superhero comics. The concept is recognizable with repeatedly appearing physical traits, anyone even passingly familiar with pop culture could tell you what a superhero looks like.
an argument built on fluff and feathers that are backed by assumptions & personal opinions on what you think, I could use the same argument because Warhammer 40k has been around since the 80s, just because YOU haven't heard of it shouldn't warrant the tag getting nuked, that'd be like if someone who knew nothing about comics and superheroes came and tried to nuke the superhero tag.
blindVigil said:
You're right, the armor Adeptus Astartes and Chaos Space Marines wear justifies their tags, as well as the space marine tag (at least in my opinion), but they don't justify the primarch tag because their armor isn't unique to Primarchs. It's the same armor worn by the regular marines. No one could tell you what a Primarch was if they weren't already familiar with which characters have that title. You couldn't make a fan character and expect people to know at a glance that they were a Primarch, without specifically depicting them next to regular sized space marines, and even then that would only mean anything to someone already familiar with the single shared trait primarchs seem to have.
(at least in my opinion) and so here we have it, the overbearing con of opinion-based approving & tagging on full display for everyone to see yet again "I don't know about this nearly 50-year-old series called Warhammer 40k that also has plenty of comics written about it along with one of the largest series of books in literature so I'm gonna abuse my power and nuke an integral tag that fully separates the demigod children of the emperor from the genetically enhanced space marines, because I'm completely ignorant of the differences and the lore that explain how the Primarchs are different with such detail that by extension it warrants their own tag on not just this site but other sites like it"
not to mention the contradiction of accepting both the space marine tag and the Astartes tag instead of there being one.
Dodo1 said:
Holy... for your talk of "going behind the communitys back" please don't tell me you made a separate "counter bur" because people said you were being a bit harsh in https://danbooru.donmai.us/forum_topics/26066 which is less than a day old?
Again, since this turned a bit into people not into 40k talking about whether a 40k tag is viable paging people also in the fandom before a tag the fandom uses gets unintentionally screwed over by people not in the fandom. @Diet_Soda @winkywonker @coga @ilnarnar @NNescio @nonamethanks @Cort321 @Xhydralisk
I am confused, why was I contacted? I like 40k and agree that the tags shouldn't be removed even though the layperson would probably not able to tell the difference.
Cort321 said:
I am confused, why was I contacted? I like 40k and agree that the tags shouldn't be removed even though the layperson would probably not able to tell the difference.
Because the user that pinged you was desperate for supporting opinions. They didn't start doing that until people started arguing with them and everyone downvoted their BUR.
Cort321 said:
I am confused, why was I contacted? I like 40k and agree that the tags shouldn't be removed even though the layperson would probably not able to tell the difference.
you were pinged because we need to save this tag from being nuked altogether by this arrogant fool, better to have a tag around that plenty of people know about and use than be without it.
winkywonker said:
you were pinged because we need to save this tag from being nuked altogether by this arrogant fool, better to have a tag around that plenty of people know about and use than be without it.
Insults aren't necessary, please keep things respectful. Even if you dislike my manner of speaking, I've never outright insulted either of you during this discussion. You can at least have the curtesy to do the same.
Cort321 said:
I don't even know who any of you are
Well, Dodo1 clearly knew you were a 40k fan, though if you don't know them I'm not sure how they knew that. You don't have to participate in this just because someone pinged you. But feel free to vote either way, your opinion is just as valuable regardless of what summoned you to this topic (even if it was obviously just to be another downvote).
Ok, I think I get the general gist of the situation, lets cool our heads a bit.
Does the word "primarch" matter outside of 40k on this site? There are 19 primarchs and each have their own tags. Those who know about 40k would know about the Primarchs and those who don't really would not know.
In my personal opinion, unless people are adding OCs that are primarchs (even then I see it as iffy) or GW suddenly decided to make an entire Primarch faction, the tag is just redundant.
Even then, I personally would like to keep the tag only for increasing the points of detail, as pointless as it is. However, since I am someone who is not aware of how the site's entire tagging library is organized, I prefer reducing clutter (if it exists).
TLDR: I don't know, leave me out of it.
Edit: Just FYI, detail wise the lore between daemon_princes and daemon_primarchs are different, though they are functionally the same thing except for the person in question. I don't know what to say for that considering those are terms specific to the Warhammer series as far as I know. The layperson will probably just label them as demons or devils, which makes sense on a surface view even if they are mechanically different.
I suggest that if Primarch tag will be removed, then to combine daemon_prince and daemon_primarch for consistency sake.
blindVigil said:
you wear your pettiness on your sleeve like a badge of honor so excuse me for reacting, what you've done here is unnecessary.
the tag is used a lot by a lot of people, it damages nothing to keep it around, the only way I can see this is an abuse of power backed by ignorance of the lore that does justify the tag, you're just petty, and this courtesy you're all of a sudden showing now just feels like a hidden middle finger.
There's nothing unnecessary about proposing a BUR, especially when far more people have argued for the tag's removal than for keeping it. "People use it" has never stopped a tag from being nuked, unless an admin comes in to say "this tag is used so much it would be stupid to get rid of it."
And again, I never insulted anybody. Acting like I did to justify your own insults is its own pettiness.
