Posted under Tags
Mexiguy said:
We aren't even sure of that, and as I pointed out there is precedent with Flare and Fubuki with costumes returning as-is after being retired after a base model redesign, again you jumping the gun here.
Yeah, but it's because I'm suggesting something to improve brevity and clarity. Also, I'm afraid I feel like Rodent is making fun of me at the moment.
AbsoluteRainbow said:
Also, I'm afraid I feel like Rodent is making fun of me at the moment.
Where am I making fun of you? I called you idea "silly" cuz there's no way to think that Kaela's outfits will be a complete reset, and the "old default" term is also silly, we've been using "old design" for so long which may as well be what Kaela's original default is, and like Mexi says, you're jumping the gun with the some of these suggestions for her outfits, we should wait and see what happens to Kaela's other outfits
AbsoluteRainbow said:
Yeah, but it's because I'm suggesting something to improve brevity and clarity. Also, I'm afraid I feel like Rodent is making fun of me at the moment.
You are suggesting renaming her costumes without even knowing if the design is gonna change at all, which is kinda silly. We should worry about that stuff *if* she, say, gets a completely new New Year's outfit.
I do agree that we should rename her 1st costume to something along the lines of (old design) or (1.0) for consistency sake and her new outfit to (new design) or (redebut), the outfit numbering is getting all kinds of silly and cumbersome at this point
Mexiguy said:
You are suggesting renaming her costumes without even knowing if the design is gonna change at all, which is kinda silly. We should worry about that *if* she gets a completely new New Year's outfit.
I do agree that we should rename her 1st costume to something along the lines of (old design) or (1.0) for consistency sake and her new outfit to (new design) or (redebut), the outfit numbering is getting all kinds of silly and cumbersome at this point
I'm all for renaming her new outfit "(redebut)", it will be in line with her debut stream where she debut it
TheGamingRodent said:
No, THAT is poor and way too generic, "redebut" is at least something unique as it is Kaela's redebut model (unlike IRyS's model who you can argue is a 2.0 in a sense)
"Redebut" is actually a POOR term overall, so no. This is a restart of sorts, not the same case as Dokibird (not to mention that "re"-term being condensed word salad). Kaela's "(new default)" or "(new design)" are way better.
Once again, Rodent, you're making fun of me again without even knowing. I saw through your words.
AbsoluteRainbow said:
"Redebut" is actually a POOR term overall, so no. This is a restart of sorts, not the same case as Dokibird (not to mention that "re"-term being condensed word salad). Kaela's "(new default)" or "(new design)" are way better.
Once again, Rodent, you're making fun of me again without even knowing. I saw through your words.
Where am I making fun of you? I'm telling you redebut is better, Kaela even calls it a "redebut" during the stream if anything, redebut works more Kaela's 4th outfit then anything else
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Mexiguy said:
This is a dumb reasoning, Flare also got her old costumes ported to her new model and we didn't rename them.
Did Flare have this scenario? I don't know whether or not she had to port anything to the new model per say, since as far as I know the only issue was the look of her original default, not the proportions as a whole. Plus, the designs didn't change for Flare, so if nothing else changed then it's a moot point essentially - which we don't know yet for Kaela. Making any sort of assumptions here on what could be would be jumping the gun, as you've said.
Regardless, on the topic at hand, I don't like the way this is forcing the discussion on what to name defaults per forum #341626. We should have a proper discussion about this given its implication for so many other VTubers, and hell, to some extent beyond VTubers too, given the recent approvals of Splatoon default costume tags and the Cardcaptor Sakura gacha functionally giving the lead there defaults too (forum #344032). The last thing we need is rushed BURs causing inconsistencies that we have to untangle 10 years later like it's Fate because someone here got antsy.
BUR #39435 has been approved by @nonamethanks.
create implication momosuzu_nene_(nene_rhythm) -> momosuzu_nene
Adding implications for Nenechi's newest outfit
Updated
The bulk update request #39435 (forum #345030) has been approved by @nonamethanks.
The bulk update request #39330 (forum #344561) has been approved by @nonamethanks.
The bulk update request #39359 (forum #344657) has been approved by @nonamethanks.
TheGamingRodent said:
Where am I making fun of you? I'm telling you redebut is better, Kaela even calls it a "redebut" during the stream if anything, redebut works more Kaela's 4th outfit then anything else
This is just poor wording, because of the word salad. Other than that, sure.
Damian0358 said:
Did Flare have this scenario? I don't know whether or not she had to port anything to the new model per say, since as far as I know the only issue was the look of her original default, not the proportions as a whole. Plus, the designs didn't change for Flare, so if nothing else changed then it's a moot point essentially - which we don't know yet for Kaela. Making any sort of assumptions here on what could be would be jumping the gun, as you've said.
Regardless, on the topic at hand, I don't like the way this is forcing the discussion on what to name defaults per forum #341626. We should have a proper discussion about this given its implication for so many other VTubers, and hell, to some extent beyond VTubers too, given the recent approvals of Splatoon default costume tags and the Cardcaptor Sakura gacha functionally giving the lead there defaults too (forum #344032). The last thing we need is rushed BURs causing inconsistencies that we have to untangle 10 years later like it's Fate because someone here got antsy.
Instead of embracing the condensed word salad that is "redebut" that Rodent declared, maybe we should wait for any updates for outfits. I did the BUR I made to stoke the discussion, not to piss anyone off. If anything, even if Rodent didn't mean to make fun of me and my suggestion, he still did treat mine like s**t.
AbsoluteRainbow said:
If anything, even if Rodent didn't mean to make fun of me and my suggestion, he still did treat mine like s**t.
Once again, please look where I made "fun" of you, and don't go looking into to hard, all I said your idea of renaming the Kaela's outfits into "Old Default" was silly when we have things like the .0 and "Old Design" that worked perfectly, and as a lot of people mentioned, you're jumping the gun when we have no idea what will become of her older costumes as they could be retired entirely or be made to fit her new design,
Also please learn what "word salad" means as "new default" sounds more like a "word salad" then "redebut" does, "new/old default" doesn't roll off the tongue as "old design/redebut" or "1/2.0" does, now personally I say we should wait and see about Kaela's older outfits before we make burs on renaming her 1st and 4th costumes, so for now let's keep them how they are
BUR #39553 is pending approval.
create implication elira_pendora_(5th_costume) -> elira_pendora
create alias elira_pendora_(5th_costume) -> elira_pendora_(goth)
Adding implications and alias to Elira's newest outfit
TheGamingRodent said:
Once again, please look where I made "fun" of you, and don't go looking into to hard, all I said your idea of renaming the Kaela's outfits into "Old Default" was silly when we have things like the .0 and "Old Design" that worked perfectly, and as a lot of people mentioned, you're jumping the gun when we have no idea what will become of her older costumes as they could be retired entirely or be made to fit her new design,
Also please learn what "word salad" means as "new default" sounds more like a "word salad" then "redebut" does, "new/old default" doesn't roll off the tongue as "old design/redebut" or "1/2.0" does, now personally I say we should wait and see about Kaela's older outfits before we make burs on renaming her 1st and 4th costumes, so for now let's keep them how they are
For now, that is. However...
That term "silly"... no, there's nothing silly about my suggestion. It's actually serious, and is meant to help brevity and clarity. Kaela effectively got more than one old design (she retired them all for her current default), so "Old Design" is out. "(number).0" again are out for the defaults, and instead should be resigned to the other previous outfits eventually (once again, New Year in her case are not going to be counted by year), and only usable on defaults if (and ONLY IF) she get another default somewhere down the line. "Redebut" is a condensed word salad, only rolling out the tongue for the sake of it - no substance, which would be stupid, especially in the long run. No, no, no. "old/new default" is very simple yet very clear. It's not true word salad, especially not so much as it's what-says-in-the-tin (the trope), exactly what is REALLY is. Rodent, you are wrong and you don't know it yourself yet. You were unknowingly making fun of my suggestion, and you denied everything about my suggestion.
For now, we'll wait and keep the "1st/4th" as a PLACEHOLDER.
TheGamingRodent said:
BUR #39553 is pending approval.
create implication elira_pendora_(5th_costume) -> elira_pendora
create alias elira_pendora_(5th_costume) -> elira_pendora_(goth)Adding implications and alias to Elira's newest outfit
By the way... what exactly does Elira see in Dokibird?
AbsoluteRainbow said:
By the way... what exactly does Elira see in Dokibird?
The forums are not the place for that kind of speculation.
AbsoluteRainbow said:
For now, that is. However...
That term "silly"... no, there's nothing silly about my suggestion. It's actually serious, and is meant to help brevity and clarity. Kaela effectively got more than one old design (she retired them all for her current default), so "Old Design" is out. "(number).0" again are out for the defaults, and instead should be resigned to the other previous outfits eventually (once again, New Year in her case are not going to be counted by year), and only usable on defaults if (and ONLY IF) she get another default somewhere down the line. "Redebut" is a condensed word salad, only rolling out the tongue for the sake of it - no substance, which would be stupid, especially in the long run. No, no, no. "old/new default" is very simple yet very clear. It's not true word salad, especially not so much as it's what-says-in-the-tin (the trope), exactly what is REALLY is. Rodent, you are wrong and you don't know it yourself yet. You were unknowingly making fun of my suggestion, and you denied everything about my suggestion.
For now, we'll wait and keep the "1st/4th" as a PLACEHOLDER.
It's been said before that even Kaela herself calls it "redebut", so going out of our way to choose something unclear like "new design" is out of the question. In what way is "new design" more clear than "redebut" when, once again, even the person behind the model calls it that. It's not like she's gonna redebut a million times, and VTubers get new designs (read: costumes) all the time.
hasu_no_kougeki said:
It's been said before that even Kaela herself calls it "redebut", so going out of our way to choose something unclear like "new design" is out of the question. In what way is "new design" more clear than "redebut" when, once again, even the person behind the model calls it that. It's not like she's gonna redebut a million times, and VTubers get new designs (read: costumes) all the time.
They called it "redebut" because Kaela started over. That's not it, bro. It's only called that condensed salad word because she herself is starting over. Also, I suggested "old/new default" ("original"?), not "old/new design" as it's way too generic. I preferred something clearer and way less confusing. Simple yet effective. "Redebut" may be confused as "rebut" or god forbid us, "debut" more (not new for Kaela anymore, just stop) if you say it too fast, and besides, not all will immediately understand what it really is anyways, so graphing it into Kaela's "new default" won't make sense in the long run.
See? It's condensed word salad, only rolling out the tongue for the sake of it, and so far officially, it's only used to denote the fact that Kaela is starting over. It's not a term worthy of costumes, guys.
The "redebut" should NEVER BE USED in ANY COSTUME TAGS, but rather on the costumes' RESPECTIVE WIKI. My suggestion is clearer and more effective in the long run. And of course, you're right about the frequency though: it's not like any Vtuber would "redebut"/reappear thousands of time, let alone millions - in fact, Dokibird and Kaela are rare cases! And sure, VTubers are no stranger to extra outfits, but the term "redebut" is too much of a word salad (condensed as it is) outweigh its style. The distinction between "old default"/"original default" and "new default" are the way to go - it's the most effective yet simple way to describe Kaela's "redebut" changes without being too generic.
Rodent and Hasu, if you guys still absolutely insists and wants to slap the "redebut" term on Kaela's new default outfit, then do it in HER WIKI only, not THE TAG!
UPDATE: I added the "redebut" term and slightly extended the wiki's wording to clarify the fact for you. You don't need to add "redebut" into the new costumes, and in fact, you guys better not. I would rather clear thing up than to appeal silly call-out of yours. (Yes, Rodent, you're the silly one)
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