Donmai

Score sockpuppetry, user sockpuppetry.

Posted under General

evazion said:
You can't log just usernames because that doesn't stop someone from registering hundreds of accounts and voting with each account. You have to log IPs to stop that.

But if we are going privileged+ on voting, then they need to spend $2,000 on those accounts. I suppose I could let it slide if it bought danbooru a new server, but it's not going to happen.

The suggestion (as I understood it) wasn't to restrict voting overall to privileged+ users, it was just to restrict the 'automatic +1 score when you favorite a post' effect to privileged+ people. It prevents someone from making a bunch of regular member accounts and favoriting the same post with each of them to increase its score. Members would still be able to vote as long as you tracked IPs to prevent them from multiple times from the same address.

evazion said:
The suggestion (as I understood it) wasn't to restrict voting overall to privileged+ users, it was just to restrict the 'automatic +1 score when you favorite a post' effect to privileged+ people. It prevents someone from making a bunch of regular member accounts and favoriting the same post with each of them to increase its score. Members would still be able to vote as long as you tracked IPs to prevent them from multiple times from the same address.

No, the suggestion was this.

1. Remove voting from member accounts.
2. Voting can only be performed by priv+ accounts.

Result:
1. Less sockpuppetry/constant upvoting/downvoting due to fewer IPs/Members to keep track of.

Ah, you're right. For some reason I thought albert was talking about the +1-vote-when-favoriting thing when he said that only favorites from privileged people should be considered in the score.

Restricting voting to priv+ shouldn't be necessary though. Just log voter IPs and delete the oldest ones after a period of time to save space. No more vote fraud, and members can still vote.

Well, supposedly:

albert said:
I guess tracking by IP is too vulnerable to exploitation.

I still think the priv+ voting would eliminate all the issues we come across in scores, as well as be extremely easy to implement and basically have no downsides. I think even the "quality" of the points would increase, as the plebeians that inflate scores of explicit content are probably mostly non-paying (and almost certainly non-contributing) members.

Plus, if someone does spend 2000 dollars to vote a picture up by 100 points, that would be awesome. :D

Well the point of this is not to collect money via sock puppets. Rather it's to dissuade sock puppets by requiring multiple privileged accounts which are prohibitively expensive either money or effort-wise.

If people do easily drop $60 for a few accounts, this won't have the desired effect. But I doubt it will happen, and if it does and there is evidence of sock-puppetry, it won't keep them from getting blocked.

I don't think I saw anyone voice this opinion strongly, but I at least use the order:score search on a regular basis whenever a search gives back more than about 5 pages of results. It's not perfect, especially since it shows a preference for explicit posts, but it really speeds up searches for specific posts and quickly gives you an idea of the content in a given search. The sort-by-popularity feature is something I sorely miss when using other sites like pixiv, so I definitely want to keep it here in some form or another.

As for removing voting privileges from members, I'm not sure that would fix the problem entirely since even a single account could be used to game the system (no need for multiple accounts, afaik). That is unless you also implement a user log per image on who has already voted. IIRC this was implemented at one point with the green and red stars and such, but was removed at least partially because people liked anonymous voting.

Considering that only about 1% of all accounts are privileged or higher (perhaps 10% if you factor activity) you should see a fair drop in the overall number of votes being cast. But, I don't see this as damaging to the benefits of the score system, at least as I use it.

I think it would be fair to restrict voting to Priveleged or higher accounts. It might have the side effect of encouraging members to either pay for an upgrade, or help contribute to the overall quality of the site and its community.

Removing the voting/scoring system completely wouldn't be that big a loss, in my eyes, but I can also see where it could bother others.

I don't think removing voting for members is a good idea. I still think making it so you have to have X amount of approved uploads before you can vote is a good idea. It doesn't hurt current members but it makes it harder to game the system with multiple accounts.

Scalar said:
I don't think removing voting for members is a good idea. I still think making it so you have to have X amount of approved uploads before you can vote is a good idea. It doesn't hurt current members but it makes it harder to game the system with multiple accounts.

I guess that would cause some users to spam shit uploads just to be able to vote. Although, with our new upload limit, it doesn't seem to be much of a problem.

Good God, why on earth do y'all care about the fact that someone has enough time on their hands to game the score on a couple of pics? Just let them and leave the score system as is, it's good enough. That's all we need and all we'll ever get out of it anyway.

Scalar said:
I don't think removing voting for members is a good idea. I still think making it so you have to have X amount of approved uploads before you can vote is a good idea. It doesn't hurt current members but it makes it harder to game the system with multiple accounts.

And what do you do about people who don't upload, but translate? Or garden the tags? I will say it again: NUMBERS DON'T WORK. You can't measure being a good citizen. Just stop trying, it's not possible.

Well for one thing, it's not so much an issue that a few posts get gamed, its that the whole system works badly. As you say numbers don't work.

But that doesn't mean that the numbers might not work better if being set by people we trust the opinions of more and eliminate easy ways to corrupt them.

As far as good translators or tag-gardeners go, if you notice them, promote them to privileged. I thought that was the idea behind being able to invite people to that level to begin with.

If you are so convinced the score system is irredeemable, then why are you so against changing it?

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