character:pyonta for the normal hat

Been going through trying to garden but, so far, the majority of pyonta character tags aren't him/it acting independently as the current wiki states. There's 2.7k tags of pyonta and, if half of those are tagged wrong (which is a low estimate based on what I've seen so far,) it's going to be a massive effort to garden. Should the tag be nuked and remade to be tagged correctly and save someone the work? Or just leave it to try and garden over a long period?

Alternatively, could tag it every time the hat appears regardless of if it acts independently and likely make the tag largely worthless

Previous topic #18544

Unbreakable said:

Previous topic #18544

Was my topic but it never really reached any conclusion and the title wasn't really expressing what this topic was about. But there needs to be SOMETHING that gets done about it so that people can actually find pyonta acting independently if they want

Yeah, just included it for reference.

Unbreakable said:

Yeah, just included it for reference.

Ah, thought you were directing me there, my bad

BUR #6269 has been rejected.

nuke pyonta

As explained in the original post. Figured I'd make this as a sort of poll for this option

Nothing needs to be done about it aside from removing Pyonta from posts where it's just resting on Suwako's head doing nothing. It can show expressions with its eyes but imo I don't think it counts unless it's off her head.

I haven't uploaded any illustrations that qualify for the tag, and I haven't paid attention to the threshold for when it's appropriate to add the tag when casually browsing her pictures, but examples like post #3501177 and post #3249656 look like great guidelines for gardening. If it looks like post #3326666 (the majority of them), then remove pyonta from the post.

yyflandre said:

Nothing needs to be done about it aside from removing Pyonta from posts where it's just resting on Suwako's head doing nothing. It can show expressions with its eyes but imo I don't think it counts unless it's off her head.

I haven't uploaded any illustrations that qualify for the tag, and I haven't paid attention to the threshold for when it's appropriate to add the tag when casually browsing her pictures, but examples like post #3501177 and post #3249656 look like great guidelines for gardening. If it looks like post #3326666 (the majority of them), then remove pyonta from the post.

The problem is that it's very possible that a majority of the pyonta-tagged images are just a hat on her head

Update: Current mental state

@Lobuttomize you're removing the tag from the few posts that actually deserve it.

post #2959576, post #2913938, post #2960125, post #3251118, these are all posts where pyonta is the focus of the picture or is detailed more than usual, and deserve the tag.

Some more: post #3727823, post #3941380, post #3320081, post #4422267.

The majority of the edits are good, but if you indiscriminately remove it from posts like these then what's the point of even submitting the BUR? Just nuke the tag manually because the result will be the same.

nonamethanks said:

@Lobuttomize you're removing the tag from the few posts that actually deserve it.

post #2959576, post #2913938, post #2960125, post #3251118, these are all posts where pyonta is the focus of the picture or is detailed more than usual, and deserve the tag.

The tag definition says it's for when pyonta acts independently or does something "interesting." For those images, how I saw it was:
1. A hat breaking
2. Suwako changing how her hat looks
3. A hat with storage essentially
4. Still just a hat

We've had two whole threads about this, and that definition in the wiki has not been touched in 11 years. If you narrow it to only the hat acting independently then you'll have three posts in all of danbooru.

Someone searching specifically for suwako's hat is likely looking for pictures focusing on the hat in general, not pictures focusing on the hat doing something by itself and nothing else.

nonamethanks said:

We've had two whole threads about this, and the definition in the wiki has not been touched in two years. If you narrow it to only the hat acting independently then you'll have three posts in all of danbooru.

Someone searching specifically for suwako's hat is likely looking for pictures focusing on the hat in general, not pictures focusing on the hat doing something by itself and nothing else.

That's an entirely different argument, though. In that case, you want the definition changed and then that other one to be adhered to

We have agreed that the tag needs to be changed, because it's useless as it stands. We've not agreed on how it should change.
What comes next is trying to figure out a better description, not going off on your own removing 2.6k posts manually.

The only input was from just 3 hours ago and most of the reactions to the BUR have been negative. That's not an agreement.

nonamethanks said:

We have agreed that the tag needs to be changed, because it's useless as it stands. We've not agreed on how it should change.
What comes next is trying to figure out a better description, not going off on your own removing 2.6k posts manually.

The only input was from just 3 hours ago and most of the reactions to the BUR have been negative. That's not an agreement.

Who is "we?" Mods or something? (This sounds aggressive but it's not meant to be, I'm just not sure what you mean by "we.")

I was just trying to garden it based on the current definition since the character pyonta, since it's a character tag, would be the independent one. As you've said, nobody seems to want to nuke the tag, so that really only leaves gardening or changing it entirely. No change came about from bringing it up 2 months ago, though, so I was gardening it for now.

"We" is the community in general.

Personally, I think pyonta should be for posts where the hat is visibly animated or detailed, basically for instances where it's not just the usual straw hat with cartoon eyes.
But I can't really see this tag as anything other than padding or high mantenance because I'm sure in a few years we'll be back to square one with the mistags.

nonamethanks said:

"We" is the community in general.

Personally, I think pyonta should be for posts where the hat is visibly animated or detailed, basically for instances where it's not just the usual straw hat with cartoon eyes.
But I can't really see this tag as anything other than padding or high mantenance because I'm sure in a few years we'll be back to square one with the mistags.

Yeah, I'm sure it'll end up high maintenance as-is

Lobuttomize said:

Who is "we?" Mods or something? (This sounds aggressive but it's not meant to be, I'm just not sure what you mean by "we.")

Usually "we" refers to Danbooru as a whole.

My personal stance is that pyonta should be turned into a gentag. Even if it's not sentient, it has a very definite shape. It's on the same tier as unique weapons tag for me (see: ragnell, for instance.)
What is fucking everything up is that the tag is focusing on pyonta being sentient and a chartag.
Sentient Pyonta should be either a pool or a character tag.
@Lobuttomize I'd suggest to slow down on gardening to make the pyonta -> gentag process easier to do if my suggestion passes, if you still want to garden according to current guidelines then add the ones you remove to a favourite group.

EDIT: the stance chosen should probably be applied to tatara_kogasa_(umbrella) too. (I'd apply to it the same suggestion as above personally, maybe favoring a chartag over a pool because it being half of kogasa and sentient is canon, unlike sentient pyonta which is completely fanon.)

I can stop gardening it for now, no biggie. Was just trying to explain my reason for thinking I should start gardening

My advice would be to not jump the gun, it may make things harder if a different solution is reached.

BUR #6270 has been rejected.

category pyonta -> general

Leaving it to vote