homeless_homo said: Why can't we just approve based on the quality of the art, and not the content? I've seen good futa, good scat (amazingly), and some pretty nice guro style images before.
Maybe specific fetishes should be removed from the TOS. That way, people wouldn't be able to pick on those fetishes while hiding behind the TOS shield. Though, I'm pretty sure this has all been said before.
So in the end, we should approve well drawn, tasteful images regardless of the fetish, and we should reject badly drawn, distasteful images.
So i guess everyone is in agreement after all these pages.
There should be no "purge such and such tag" because there are still some good posts in those tags. For example, when nude filter posts were deleted there were still some undeleted because they were good.
It only looks like the people, and not the pictures are the problem.
This is what I think about self uploaded artwork as well. Just because that person is the artist shouldn't make their work worthless. It should be judged by the artwork itself. If it sucks, it goes. If it's good, it should stay; regardless of if the uploader drew it or not.
All artwork uploaded to Danbooru should be judged in a non biased way and soley on the skill of the artist and not by content or who uploaded it. Yes, it should be discouraged, but if some good art slips through, the fact that the artist uploaded it themselves shouldn't make it okay to delete good art.
Self uploaded artwork usually has a biased opinion about what is "good", so you end up with a lot of drama. Its not that the art is unwelcome, it's that the artist usually feels their art is better than other people do.
But that's an arguement for another thread
EDIT: the problem isn't getting quality uploads, its getting bad ones that the artist then bitches about why it wasn't accepted
Suiseiseki said: Self uploaded artwork usually has a biased opinion about what is "good", so you end up with a lot of drama. Its not that the art is unwelcome, it's that the artist usually feels their art is better than other people do.
But that's an arguement for another thread
But with janitors, we (should) approve based on the quality of the art and nothing else. But I agree; we'll leave this be for now.
I don't want to overstep my bounds or anything here, but I felt it just had to be said. For a while now I've been noticing that there's a high level of hypocrisy going on here. And i thought it should be noticed especially on this topic. I don't know when or why it started but a lot of people are abusing the rule systems for their own purposes and alienating regular users. And what allows this to happen the most is the ToS. It's existence eliminates blacklisting, and only solidifies elitism on the site. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have it. I'm only pointing out that it's highly manipulative and can contorted to fit only a select few. The site itself is meant for all not only few. But unfortunately it seems it's going down that path. I don't share some of the same fetishes as then next guy who might like guro, scat, or watersports. But i do acknowledge they have as much of a right to be able to see their fetishes on the site, as much as I do, as well as any of you. I know it's an insane idea but I propose the ToS be abolished. I think it's better to let the users votes on images dictate whether an image should stay or not.
Dragon_Samurai said: I think it's better to let the users votes on images dictate whether an image should stay or not.
I think that's a terrible idea. If we did that, before long we'd have good art shot down and bad art forced up by net hooligans doing it "for teh lulz".
It's actually possible for it to work, if that mindset is around for the approval of images. The site is community based so I don't see why it couldn't be tried.
The idea is a working progress, and actually a whole lot better than a system that could be abused a the drop of a hat. Which is actually killing good artwork as well.
Dragon_Samurai said: It's actually possible for it to work, if that mindset is around for the approval of images. The site is community based so I don't see why it couldn't be tried.
Its been consistently shown that safe images get far lower scores than explicit ones, with some exceptions of course. No matter how bad an image is, people will up vote and favorite it if it has giant tits.
I like the idea of the TOS being in place for a guideline of what to upload rather than hard law. When I joined, that's what it used to be. Uploading scat, guro, etc. was discouraged but every once in awhile there would be some good art with the content. Having it in the TOS made the quality control a lot better and prevented a lot of bad art to be uploaded.
Now, it's all being taken so literally that it's infringing on the art that IS good.
Voting wouldn't work at all. There are plenty of crap images with high rating scores, generally it's a combination of [popular series] + nude or breasts. Also there are plenty of good quality art that are heavily down rated because aspects of the image make it disgusting for the majority (ie futa, etc).
While I don't fully agree completely with some interpretations of the ToS nor with the definition of the photoshop/nude filter one, I think the ToS generally does more in insuring quality than taking it away from the site.
Granola said: For example, when nude filter posts were deleted there were still some undeleted because they were good.
Well, I don't think nude filters are ever created to make an image more tasteful. Those I still don't like at all. Regardless of how good the "filter" is, it isn't made by the original artist and they are usually created to change a tasteful image into fap material.
Suiseiseki said: Its been consistently shown that safe images get far lower scores than explicit ones, with some exceptions of course. No matter how bad an image is, people will up vote and favorite it if it has giant tits.
I see your point, but I'm only putting it out there as an alternative idea opposed to the ToS being, as ePlus put it, being hard law. The way it's being used now is pretty much just making it more for a select few users, than for everyone. I don't expect everyone to have the same tastes as me. So I don't think it's best to alienate them from the site I use.
It's not really a matter of exceptions Granola. You pointed out and quoted in your argument with the errors of the ToS. In which no offense seems like hypocrisy in itself. Who's really to decide what's "grotesque" or "good art"? Since you were strongly defending guro posts before, I want to understand how a guro pic out ranks one of a futa pic? Or how Cevoy is a lesser artist then Depth Bomb?
Dragon_Samurai said: It's not really a matter of exceptions Granola. You pointed out and quoted in your argument with the errors of the ToS. In which no offense seems like hypocrisy in itself. Who's really to decide what's "grotesque" or "good art"? Since you were strongly defending guro posts before, I want to understand how a guro pic out ranks one of a futa pic? Or how Cevoy is a lesser artist then Depth Bomb?
Its all about 1. Quality of said picture. 2. Whether admins allow it.
Both are subjective to whether the moderators think its okay. There are plenty of guro pictures that I think are great quality art, but I don't upload them because they're against what the moderators will allow.
How do I know what the moderators allow? I lurk, and I observe, and I think really hard whether this is acceptable for the site. I think if everyone does the same, we would have no problems.
For example, depth bomb is a great artist, but I won't post all the really extreme pics because I know they are unacceptable. If Cevoy has good art, post his art. But if its unacceptable, then it shouldn't be posted. Self-moderation is the key to not causing a flurry of arguments.
Log said: Well, it IS the only copyright in the top 50 tags by post count, to be fair.
Which explains why it's a scapegoat, but that doesn't make it right. Simply put, there's a lot of Touhou because more Touhou art gets made than anything else. Just look at tag counts on pixiv, it's frightening. So the "Touhoufag" bawwing won't get anyone anywhere, it's just a bitter attempt to derail the real arguments.
We (mods, admins, janitors etc.) decide what to keep and what not to keep. It is arbitrary, based on albert's guidelines and our judgment. We are not the harbringers of good taste, nor do we judge you on what your fetishes and interests are, but we execute a game plan that provides danbooru with what we consider high quality content.
albert added "grotesque body shapes" to the ToS (he did quite recently if I recall), which means he doesn't want it here. Same with guro, yaoi, or anything else. It's unfair, and I'm sorry if that means you think the website isn't good--I suggest you turn to another site or convince albert that it belongs here.
But this is how we keep danbooru from becoming /b/: a subjective quality control system that (aside from checking the quality of the art as well as whether it's relevant to the "danbooru style") includes removing certain images that we perceive to be dragging down the quality of the site as a whole. As an example, huge futanari does that, and therefore doesn't belong here.
One more thing: saying "it could be blacklisted if you don't like it" is an incorrect representation of what danbooru is. We could all blacklist a hypothetical bad_art tag and then allow all art in, with the moderating process just consisting of tagging bad art with that tag. But that's just not how we're running danbooru right now.
