Genshin Impact character tag discussion/BURs

BUR #4642 has been rejected.

This BUR, if accepted, will migrate all extant tags with the qualifier _(genshin_impact) to _(genshin). Genshin is both the Japanese title of the game and a common abbreviation among English speakers. As such, I see no logic in shortening KanColle's qualifier but leaving this one in place.

It also adds the qualifier to a couple of characters missing it, and shortens the full names Kamisato Ayaka and Jean Gunnhildr to Ayaka and Jean for consistency.

Edit: Added some unqualified names at the end (all NPCs/enemies except for hu tao)

7HS said:

It also shortens the full names Kamisato Ayaka and Jean Gunnhildr to Ayaka and Jean for consistency.

I would really rather we not do that. That's not an arbitrary consistency I want at all. We don't do that anywhere else, we should be giving full names to those that have them instead.

blindVigil said:

I would really rather we not do that. That's not an arbitrary consistency I want at all. We don't do that anywhere else, we should be giving full names to those that have them instead.

Refer to forum #180324

Unbreakable said:

Refer to forum #180324

Well, I don't agree with any of that, it doesn't really serve to justify anything, but I suspect arguing about it is a lost cause.

For the record, I agree with blindVigil here. I think character tag qualifiers are an ugly necessity we must use when lacking a means of distinction, and that full names without a qualifier should be preferred provided they're unambiguous. Trying to have all character tags within a franchise use qualifiers for the sake of consistency seems arbitrary and is subjectively not necessarily superior.

After some sleep, I feel I can better express my issues with this BUR.

First, I have no problems with shortening (genshin impact) to (genshin). That's not what I'm voting against.

My problem is with the excessive use of qualifiers on tags that don't need them, and the active refusal to use full names when they're known.

The majority of these tags, including NPCs and enemies, do not need a qualifier, most only have one because of an insistence by some users that all single word names must have a qualifier, no matter how unique and unambiguous they are. Some, like Amber (Genshin Impact), are actually common or ambiguous and do actually need a qualifier to distinguish them from similarly named characters or concepts. The rest have qualifiers solely for the sake of visual consistency. It's complete overkill for all of these tags to be qualified when only maybe half actually need it.

The full name debate is what I really disagree with, though. This isn't Arknights. Harbingers and Archons aside, we're not dealing with aliases or codenames that are more commonly used or well known. Her name is Jean Gunnhildr, she is commonly referred to as Jean; his name is Diluc Ragnvindr, he is commonly referred to as Diluc, because these are their names and you don't typically use surnames if everyone knows who you're talking about. Jean's surname might actually be the most advertised bit of information in this game. Even without his surname Diluc isn't competing with anybody for his name. These tags wouldn't need qualifiers at all if we would just use the full names they have, which is the whole point of using full names, so that characters can be distinguished without needing an ugly qualifier.

I would say that most Genshin Impact characters with single name don't even need qualifier because their names are very unique, and are written based on chinese pronunciation, which makes it even harder to have new characters with the exact same names as them.

It sounds like the main point of disagreement here is not with the _(genshin) qualifier but with the other stuff I tossed in, so if this gets rejected, I'll submit an edited BUR that only changes the existing qualifiers and none of the names or currently unqualified tags (or I can just edit this BUR if an admin agrees with the pushback.)

7HS said:

It sounds like the main point of disagreement here is not with the _(genshin) qualifier but with the other stuff I tossed in, so if this gets rejected, I'll submit an edited BUR that only changes the existing qualifiers and none of the names or currently unqualified tags (or I can just edit this BUR if an admin agrees with the pushback.)

It's twofold for me, I would really prefer keeping the qualifier full as well, but I'll agree with the others above me that by far my biggest point to disagree with this is unneeded qualifiers for characters with unique/full names.

Astolfo said:

It's twofold for me, I would really prefer keeping the qualifier full as well, but I'll agree with the others above me that by far my biggest point to disagree with this is unneeded qualifiers for characters with unique/full names.

Agreed.

7HS said:

It sounds like the main point of disagreement here is not with the _(genshin) qualifier but with the other stuff I tossed in, so if this gets rejected, I'll submit an edited BUR that only changes the existing qualifiers and none of the names or currently unqualified tags (or I can just edit this BUR if an admin agrees with the pushback.)

I'd suggest a new BUR, since all the downvotes likely won't change even if you update the BUR. It'd also probably be a good idea to retain the alias for characters that don't need qualifiers, but flip the alias so the qualified version alias to the unqualified one.

Besides Jean and Diluc, Kaeya should also have his full name used. His full name is revealed as Kaeya Alberich in his character details and this info is available as soon as you get him and is not behind any sort of locks like the story or vision info (this same bio info also contains Diluc's full name as Diluc Ragnvindr).

Just a question, if one of the reasons for wanting to shorten the qualifier is due to Genshin being the Japanese name, why not shorten the whole copyright to follow the general rule of using JP titles? It just seems weird to only shorten the qualifier and not the copyright to match due to that reason, unless I'm misunderstanding some danbooru naming conventions. It seems unnecessary to me to even change the qualifier in the first place. None of the characters names are extremely long or anything like with kancolle

NWF_Renim said:

I'd suggest a new BUR, since all the downvotes likely won't change even if you update the BUR. It'd also probably be a good idea to retain the alias for characters that don't need qualifiers, but flip the alias so the qualified version alias to the unqualified one.

Besides Jean and Diluc, Kaeya should also have his full name used. His full name is revealed as Kaeya Alberich in his character details and this info is available as soon as you get him and is not behind any sort of locks like the story or vision info (this same bio info also contains Diluc's full name as Diluc Ragnvindr).

I don't see any reason Barbara Page, Lisa Minci, and Mona Megistus shouldn't also use their full names. Lisa is free to all players, like Kaeya, Barbara was free to all players for the first two months, Mona's full name is mentioned in her description on the official site, and all characters with known full names have them listed on the Genshin wiki. Along with the ingame sources, there are ample opportunities to learn their surnames, not even considering the unquantifiable number of fans that share this info with other people, so I don't think being lesser known is a very strong concern here.

Missed searches don't matter much either, since all three of these characters have very common given names and anyone typing "Barbara" and hitting enter is going to end up at a disambiguation wiki whether we're using her full name or a qualifier. (Edit: It turns out Barbara and Lisa didn't already have disambiguation pages? Well, now they do.)

The only character related to this subject I don't have a strong opinion on is Fischl von Luftschloss Narfidort, as unlike the others she is actually using an alias, her "full name" just being a character from an in-universe novel series. It's also obnoxiously long, and Fischl is already a completely unique name and doesn't need a qualifier to begin with. Also, as we saw with Ganyu (genshin impact), unneeded qualifiers cause missed searches, and Fischl is currently in the list, albeit with only 40 hits as of this writing.

The bulk update request #4642 (forum #180335) has been rejected by @7HS.

With 6 yes votes and 16 no votes, it's pretty clear that people don't want Genshin Impact tagged the way I suggested in the opening post.

Here's my new recommendation in the hopes of achieving a bit more of a compromise (which is reasonably close to the status quo and how we normally operate on danbooru, just with the unwritten logic now written):

• Playable characters with full names use those full names, unqualified, as their tag (except in the hypothetical situation the full name is still ambiguous - currently no Genshin character seems at high risk of this)
• Characters with single-word names are qualified with _(genshin_impact)
• If the single-word name isn't ambiguous (like fischl and qiqi), it should be aliased to the main tag, otherwise it should be empty with a disambiguation wiki
• Non-playable characters can have the qualifier or not based solely on whether their tag is ambiguous or seems at high risk for ambiguity. Cyrus and Slime should be qualified, Hilichurl and Mountain Shaper don't need to be (though I don't know if it's a big enough deal to reverse existing aliases.)

We can revisit what the qualifier should be later if anyone wants to. Genshin Impact does have the advantage over similar copyrights that at present it seems unlikely to have tags under it with double or triple qualifiers, like jeanne_d'arc_(alter_swimsuit_berserker)_(fate). So making the qualifier as short as it can be is less crucial, especially if we drop the plan of adding qualifiers to the longer tags.

One question this leaves open is whether hu tao is a full name. Her name is one word and just means "Walnut." I've also seen some official looking images with "Hutao" written on them. On the other hand, she's currently referred to in the English localization as both "Hu Tao" and "Master Hu." But I'll leave that alone until we at least have a confirmed name spelling for her as a playable character.

BUR #4742 has been rejected.

remove alias jean_gunnhildr -> jean_gunnhildr_(genshin_impact)

Preparation for my next BUR (if it gets approved.)

BUR #4743 has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

create alias ayaka_(genshin_impact) -> kamisato_ayaka
create alias kamisato_ayaka_(genshin_impact) -> kamisato_ayaka
create alias jean_gunnhildr_(genshin_impact) -> jean_gunnhildr
create alias barbara_(genshin_impact) -> barbara_pegg
create alias diluc_(genshin_impact) -> diluc_ragnvindr
create alias kaeya_(genshin_impact) -> kaeya_alberich
create alias mona_(genshin_impact) -> mona_megistus
create alias lisa_(genshin_impact) -> lisa_minci

For now let's just move everyone who has them to their full names (except Fischl for the reasons blindVigil outlined.) Or, if the popular consensus is not to do so, we should move Jean away from hers.

You don't need the first BUR, "create alias" can swap aliases now, so it isn't necessary to undo an alias first.

The bulk update request #4742 (forum #180965) has been rejected by @7HS.

blindVigil said:

You don't need the first BUR, "create alias" can swap aliases now, so it isn't necessary to undo an alias first.

Oh cool, I missed the memo on that. Very handy.