I need to sleep now, but I'll leave you with this: There's a big difference between being in control as in being in the driver's seat and being in control as in tying you up and locking you in the trunk (consensually or not).
Posted under General
I need to sleep now, but I'll leave you with this: There's a big difference between being in control as in being in the driver's seat and being in control as in tying you up and locking you in the trunk (consensually or not).
That example sounds like you're falling back to stating that BDSM is the difference between the two, which would mean that femdom isn't all cases of a dominate female, it's only for cases with a BDSM context.
Some examples of the lack of real visual difference between what is being tagged what.
assertive: post #2015150, post #843403
femdom: post #2089180, post #1192772
I vote for aliasing assertive to femdom, or at least a heavy tag clean up, since there's no difference in the current usage between the two.
It seems the only thing that warrants these two different tags was to differentiate between "the guy happily letting the girl take control" (assertive) and "the guy looks positively powerless/total submission" (femdom), but the tag names unfortunately made people intuitively only focus on whether there's a girl in control or not, hence there's no difference in usage. Not to mention many images in these two tags have faceless_male, who we can't tell whether is happy or shy or horrified that there's a girl riding them.
I'm not sure. Subjectively, I feel that the distinction between femdom and assertive (and the equivalent concepts for males) is a real and important one. Whether it's a worthwhile, taggable property on Danbooru is another matter. I agree that the categories femdom bdsm, femdom -bdsm and assertive as currently tagged are inconsistent and not fully in line with what I have in mind.
The value of a separate tag for assertiveness (or "mild domination") depends on how broad you want your definition of "BDSM" to be. Should it refer to any abusive but consensual sexual behavior (the current wiki page does seem to indicate this) or only to "standard" BDSM practices like bondage and spanking? With a very broad definition, assertive could be almost visually equivalent to femdom -bdsm -rape. With a narrow definition, there could be a large subset of femdom -bdsm -rape that is far too hardcore to be equivalent to simply "the girl being in charge".
The partner's reaction is not the only way to tell the difference between domination and assertiveness. You can see it on the girls themselves, too. Compare these posts (abusive but not "standard" BDSM):
post #1383913, post #1797509, post #1787063, post #2053076
"You're enjoying this, aren't you, you pig?"
With these (assertive but not abusive):
post #1911178, post #2027913, post #1932868, post #1915680
"Heh heh heh, I'm gonna make you feel so good."
I wouldn't mind handling tag cleanup for assertive and the various femdom subsets, but I don't know if I'll have the time to do it on my own. Not having access to the quick editing tools slows things down.
Edit: For clarity.
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Just adding my 2 cents.
In the case of rape would not female_rape/female_rapist and male_rape/male_rapist be much more objective while allowing rape to actually use its correct definition?
It adds one tag but it it would allow for 1 tag to search for all female/male/all types of rape, with the addition of situations were a woman and man are raping someone with 2 tags.
Pyrolight said:
Just adding my 2 cents.
In the case of rape would not female_rape/female_rapist and male_rape/male_rapist be much more objective while allowing rape to actually use its correct definition?
It adds one tag but it it would allow for 1 tag to search for all female/male/all types of rape, with the addition of situations were a woman and man are raping someone with 2 tags.
That's great! I think these tags are good:
female_rapist
male_rapist
female_rape_victim
male_rape_victim
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Flopsy said:
Subjectively, I feel that the distinction between femdom and assertive (and the equivalent concepts for males) is a real and important one. Whether it's a worthwhile, taggable property on Danbooru is another matter.
All tags discussion on Danbooru is about its usage on Danbooru. If a tag is not worthwhile or unintuitive, we won't use it regardless of its definition or distinction in real life.
We need an umbrella tag for all sexually dominant females, whether she's gentle or rough, lightly teasing or outright abusing. Femdom is currently the ideal name for this umbrella tag, unless someone can propose something better that doesn't associate with BDSM. Finer searches such as femdom rape should give female rapists, femdom bdsm should give women giving insults/bondage.
Sal.N said:I vote for aliasing assertive to femdom, or at least a heavy tag clean up, since there's no difference in the current usage between the two.
It seems the only thing that warrants these two different tags was to differentiate between "the guy happily letting the girl take control" (assertive) and "the guy looks positively powerless/total submission" (femdom), but the tag names unfortunately made people intuitively only focus on whether there's a girl in control or not, hence there's no difference in usage.
Actually, there is difference in usage between the tags. Most of the images that pop up when searching femdom are very rough/humiliating treatment, bonded, or a dominatrix lime it should. While assertive is rare tagged with that.
Examples:
assertive pegging vs femdom pegging
assertive dominatrix vs femdom dominatrix
assertive BDSM vs femdom BDSM
I have come across none sexual images that are labeled as femdom. But it's only 15 pages, so it's very easy to clean up.
Not to mention many images in these two tags have faceless_male, who we can't tell whether is happy or shy or horrified that there's a girl riding them.
A person can be happy in a BDSM situation. If they are not than it is rape.
Sal.N said:
All tags discussion on Danbooru is about its usage on Danbooru. If a tag is not worthwhile or unintuitive, we won't use it regardless of its definition or distinction in real life.
We need an umbrella tag for all sexually dominant females, whether she's gentle or rough, lightly teasing or outright abusing. Femdom is currently the ideal name for this umbrella tag, unless someone can propose something better that doesn't associate with BDSM. Finer searches such as femdom rape should give female rapists, femdom bdsm should give women giving insults/bondage.
Why exactly do we "need" umbrella tag for all sexually dominant females? Other Porn/hentai sites doesn't do that or use the tag femdom for that. Why is this porn site any different?
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Man_of_Sin said:
Actually, there is difference in usage between the tags. Most of the images that pop up when searching femdom are very rough/humiliating treatment, bonded, or a dominatrix lime it should. While assertive is rare tagged with that.
That is because femdom wiki currently has BDSM in its definition, so some users are deterred from using it. That was also what driven the creation of the redundant "assertive" tag in the first place.
Even with the existence of the assertive tag, even with the femdom's outdated wiki, people are still using femdom to tag non-BDSM images. That signifies what people find intuitive to call/search for dominant females.
A person can be happy in a BDSM situation. If they are not than it is rape.
What does that have to do with my sentence?
Why exactly do we "need" umbrella tag for all sexually dominant females? Other Porn/hentai sites doesn't do that or use the tag femdom for that. Why is this porn site any different?
Because Danbooru tagging practice doesn't allow tags that are the combination of two different tags. The original discussion in this thread was one example. The tag "reverse rape" was abolished beause it's essentially just a combined search of femdom + rape. We always strive to tag umbrella concepts because it's much more robust:
1) it allows users to search all images pertained one subject matter (in this case, it's dominant females)
2) while also allows finer searches by combining with other tags.
An easier to understand example would be why we do not use tags such as "HomuMado" because it's just a combination of 3 umbrellas: akemi_homura, kaname_madoka, yuri.
In other words, if we have an umbrella tag that catches all dominant females, we can use it to tag female rapists, dominatrixes and assertive girls without having 3 or more separate tags for concepts we already had tags for (i.e. rape and bdsm).
Sal.N said:
We need an umbrella tag for all sexually dominant females, whether she's gentle or rough, lightly teasing or outright abusing. Femdom is currently the ideal name for this umbrella tag, unless someone can propose something better that doesn't associate with BDSM.
I'm still uncomfortable with using a term that implies "domination" to describe this concept, but I'll accept it as short and well-known.
Sal.N said:
Because Danbooru tagging practice doesn't allow tags that are the combination of two different tags. The original discussion in this thread was one example. The tag "reverse rape" was abolished beause it's essentially just a combined search of femdom + rape. We always strive to tag umbrella concepts because it's much more robust:
1) it allows users to search all images pertained one subject matter (in this case, it's dominant females)
2) while also allows finer searches by combining with other tags.An easier to understand example would be why we do not use tags such as "HomuMado" because it's just a combination of 3 umbrellas: akemi_homura, kaname_madoka, yuri.
In other words, if we have an umbrella tag that catches all dominant females, we can use it to tag female rapists, dominatrixes and assertive girls without having 3 or more separate tags for concepts we already had tags for (i.e. rape and bdsm).
I agree completely with this principle. If it is made abundantly clear that bdsm applies to all forms of consensual sexual abuse and humiliation, not just bondage dungeon stuff, then I'll (somewhat reluctantly) support aliasing assertive to femdom (or performing a mass edit).
Sal.N said:
That is because femdom wiki currently has BDSM in its definition, so some users are deterred from using it. That was also what driven the creation of the redundant "assertive" tag in the first place.
Even with the existence of the assertive tag, even with the femdom's outdated wiki, people are still using femdom to tag non-BDSM images. That signifies what people find intuitive to call/search for dominant females.
IDK...After doing some searching I really haven't seen much that reflects the notion of the femdom tag being used significantly for non-BDSM images on this site, like it was claimed on the previous page. Even femdom rape (which replaced reverse_rape over 6 years ago) only consists of barely over 9 pages worth of images and there should be far more images with female rapist than that(probably because most people have never heard of the term "femdom" before). So I doubt it's being used for the average girl on top image much.
I don't see why we should change the femdom definition because of a very few number of people mislabeling it(like girl_on_top yaoi). Expanding the femdom tag would damage its utility.
And according to the assertive page its creation had nothing to do with femdom:
Inspired by comments on post 435995 requesting a tag for "sexually aggressive expression", although "aggressive" implies hostility or violence, which is not the idea here.
Because Danbooru tagging practice doesn't allow tags that are the combination of two different tags. The original discussion in this thread was one example. The tag "reverse rape" was abolished beause it's essentially just a combined search of femdom + rape. We always strive to tag umbrella concepts because it's much more robust:
1) it allows users to search all images pertained one subject matter (in this case, it's dominant females)
2) while also allows finer searches by combining with other tags.An easier to understand example would be why we do not use tags such as "HomuMado" because it's just a combination of 3 umbrellas: akemi_homura, kaname_madoka, yuri.
In other words, if we have an umbrella tag that catches all dominant females, we can use it to tag female rapists, dominatrixes and assertive girls without having 3 or more separate tags for concepts we already had tags for (i.e. rape and bdsm).
I mean why do we need a tag for a woman being in control in a consensual and normal way? Other porn sites don't have tag for that.
What does that have to do with my sentence?
It seemed like you were saying that whether the person showed he was enjoying it or not determined whether it was femdom or not.
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Man_of_Sin said:
I mean why do we need a tag for a woman being in control in a consensual and normal way? Other porn sites don't have tag for that.
Beacuse Danbooru focuses on tagging, not on porn. Seriously, it's there in howto:upload:
Danbooru is not a Hentai Board
Danbooru is a high-quality anime-illustration gallery that tolerates sexual content. We are NOT a repository for anime porn. We accept sexual content because the talented artists out there, especially from Japan, happen to draw a lot of good smut.
Type-kun said:
Beacuse Danbooru focuses on tagging, not on porn. Seriously, it's there in howto:upload:
Very well then. I haven't read that since I joined.
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