Well, I feel like I don't have to refute much given the response in forum #141884, but it is still annoying to see you attempt to even put up this sad facade of what you call "arguing" and putting up a meaningful discussion.
I back nearly all of my observations with things that I know to be generally true, to generally hold for a set of users regardless of their standing here. It makes me rather glad other users are covering for what I'm arguing.
albert has already decided on the course that things will go with this, so it's pointless for me to even say any more. Same as it is for you, obviously, yet you still do it because all you've done is argue points that everyone has already conceded or is willing to deal with. Like mentioned multiple times and failing your ignorance, we don't need the "perfect" solution (in which you keep trying to find some other foreign way). We just need a good one that solves the problem best without expending all the unnecessary effort to implement.
So, let's see.
You arguing is also pretty refined since it basically tells that we don't have a need for a survey because most users don't care and most of them don't engage in uploading at all. That is a pretty clever thing to say, actually. And very hard to dispute. Yet, in a survey you won't get just this reply back that users don't care. But you will also get less popular result which are namely "I want to have them away in the search field and not prominently on the upload page" and "I still want t keep the name like it is". Those are then the more important votings then since then you can examine how the current users are seeing it.
Christ almighty, you are trying to use them as a defense now. forum #141858 already replied to this:
Uploader names are the least interesting thing for visitors. Anyone here without an account only wants to look at animu pictures, nothing else.
QFT
Exactly. It will do nothing t them. And I can tell you that I probably still get most of the credit. I have already told you why this point is not a god reason: Basically, you will strengthen fast and thorough taggers who add 54 tags and the original uploader with 25 tags is left in the dust. This is something I don't want to have happen and I can tell that I could reach this easily because I know the tags and I know when to use a tag. This change does indeed do nothing to these people in this regard, it will promote people like me even further but I don't want to kick someone's true efforts in the dust with it. I don't want this to happen in any case.
Now here is another case where you can't even remember what you've read. I have already addressed this in forum #141783:
Regarding the tagger thing, honestly this is what I think. Maybe we can consider doing a checkmark that makes tag contributions "zero worth" and don't count towards the point count if you're that annoyed (this change could be reversible if you change your mind). There are always solutions that can be improved. Just because you find one bad apple, you shouldn't give up the whole tree. Work with something that sounds decent, and make it amazing.
And, as iterated in forum #141884, this isn't as much a problem as you think it is. If the 25 or so tags are accurate and descriptive enough to find a post without much effort, then it's totally acceptable.
Taggers eventually don't have to search for stuff they can tag. Sunds fun, right? It surely is not. I say that taggers don't really want to tag at all. Especially not if you have someone who just wants to lazily sit around and upload their backlog (your own words; you want to be lazy).
I think this is incredibly offensive to the taggers of the site. I follow one clear thing and that is never to help people who are deliberately lazy. If there is a person who wants to be lazy then do it during your freetime, but I don't want to waste my time on such a person. This is what you are trying to achieve so you can uplad your backlog lazily (those are your own words in this topic and therefore can't be counted as a personal attack.)
You think I'm speaking for only myself here. Well I have no doubt in my mind that I'm lazy, but I also have expended a lot of effort on this site to make it better, and frankly all of that effort is largely mood-based as this is my hobby. You can't force me to do something I don't want, but users like you are definitely trying to force me out of it by continuing to abuse your monopolistic practices.
But take this, for example. nnt has said in my own server that he probably has an even larger backlog than I do. Wouldn't it be nice if he could dump it all out in a few days, then over the next week or so everyone who wanted to tag those works would slowly work on them the coming week until they were all adequately tagged? Anything anyone missed he would then go back and fully tag. This is how things ought to work. Think about the way albert himself uploads, and he's the owner of this site.
Like I said, when people perceive there is work needed to be done on the site rather than outside of it, then these users will find their space for contribution, and start to ease their way into being an uploader. See (4) in forum #141869. This is how you attract more users. If a domain is perceived to has no significant work needed to be done by the majority of the userbase, then naturally there won't be any new contributors because there is no reason to attract new users.
Think about that for a second. You have eliminated tagme. Great? All this has done is shrink that space for potential contribution, so even fewer users become tag gardeners. Then you attract the users that upload the popular non-fanservicey stuff with little to no tags because they see the gallery incomplete yet haven't read or bothered with how to tag more. It's a cycle of frustration that brings down everyone.
I say I am 'lazy', but my efforts to push what I think is best for the site is far from lazy here. You can't possibly hold that against me because you need to feel good about which kind of users you're helping, because everyone's lazy at heart.
If you don't want t tag your submissions to the site then why should I tag it? So you can get away with doing nothing in the end? I consider this as a highly disrespectful point against any tagger.
Don't get so goddamn full of yourself. People upload because they eventually want to see something saved here, not because you have to go on your almighty power trip about everyone has to juggle the responsibilities of x, y, z altogether when they fuck up. You fail to acknowledge that this kind of reasoning makes you part of the problem.
I don't see anything good in uploading a 60 posts big backlog batch that is uploaded in an instant with no tags because you assume that there are people that will tag it. This may work in an ideal work, how it "should" work.
I think this is all well and nicely thought through by Mikaeri and in the core I completely agree with him, but I think he forgets that taggers do also have a life outside of Danbooru.
Well, I do. See above. You have to assume some things when you're trying out solutions, that's what trial and error is. And if the gallery's health is better, guess what? It works, and that's all we care about.
As I've said before, is this about the completion of the gallery or is it only having a well-maintained gallery that's shrinking day by day because of the elites continuing to force their way down everyone else's throats? I want to enjoy this site as a plebeian at heart since I don't find uploading enjoyable. I don't enjoy saltvotes, I don't enjoy wasting my time tagging a post just for someone else to snipe me with the most filler/guesswork tags, I don't enjoy seeing users waste their life with their obsession of staying up late keeping notifications on just to make sure they get their name on something before anyone else.
Most importantly, I don't enjoy continuing to respond to users that post garbage straw man arguments. You continue to try to attack points mentioned by me that I've already conceded. What's this solve in your eyes? That because it isn't totally perfect, it's totally wrong?
But if we want to sacrifice the amount of tags against the amount of uploads then I think this is exactly the way to go.
That's the entire point of this discussion of (2) in the opening post. You're going to have to sacrifice something big to get something even bigger. When people see the need to contribute and a big incentive/reason to, whether they are credit whores or whatever they will eventually fill in that space for us.
I've thought about this problem for a long time, much longer than most users have. A number of users know I've been in support for a nameless system for a long time. But I have fought tooth and nail to posit the argument that this is what users want when the discussion has finally surfaced itself, when I already started to close the door on my way out because this is something I assumed danbooru would never change (hence why I have divested my efforts into making a "Mikabooru" instead). But if danbooru is intent on improving, and albert is willing to discuss the elephant in the room, then I'll be here to support it, and this site might just win me back.
And so I'm glad that many of the users in this thread are starting to agree with me. While they may agree because I'm the one saying it (as I understand I'm a somewhat popular and well-liked user), I want them to agree because they see my line of thinking. As kittey mentioned in forum #141884, now the concern is it potentially being implemented incorrectly, but it's not something that can't be fixed.
I don't know how much danbooru values me as a user. Perhaps a lot, perhaps a little. But I do want this site to continue to succeed, even though weeks ago I've conceded that I really don't give a flying crap if one of these days one of you "rockstar" uploaders suddenly decides to give up and lose all motivation, and then the gallery is poorly tagged and maintained for weeks on end until the gallery gains back its health through the effort of other users that actually start noticing this problem.
